Rimless - Zen/Bonsai 5-Gallon Setup?
- Thread starter dapellegrini
- Start date
dapellegrini
New member
Ok - JBJ is out of the running. Now I am thinking either the Aqua Medic 70w or 150w pendant, or the Coralife Clip-on. Really leaning toward the AM 70w. 150w over 14-inch x 8-inch (5g) tank would be way too much, right?
I was also told that a small canister (the Eheim) is a waste of money and may cause more problems than it solves. So with weekly water changes, I guess I just need a good powerhead??? Any advice on something that won't blow the water out of the tank, and as small and invisible as possible?
I was also told that a small canister (the Eheim) is a waste of money and may cause more problems than it solves. So with weekly water changes, I guess I just need a good powerhead??? Any advice on something that won't blow the water out of the tank, and as small and invisible as possible?
Agu
Premium Member
I've tried the same approach on a 5.5 gallon tank. Didn't want a bunch of equipment showing. Here's how mine was done,
Overflow, with the back painted black it's barely noticeable
Return powerhead with split returns,
Put together,
With top and base,
The light died and I'm now using a DIY pendant with a 26w curley PC. IMO the 70 w would be more than adequate.
The powerhaed I'm using is rated at about 90gph but with head and elbows I'm probably moving 2/3 that split between two returns,
Overflow, with the back painted black it's barely noticeable
Return powerhead with split returns,
Put together,
With top and base,
The light died and I'm now using a DIY pendant with a 26w curley PC. IMO the 70 w would be more than adequate.
The powerhaed I'm using is rated at about 90gph but with head and elbows I'm probably moving 2/3 that split between two returns,
Wow. Your FW planted tanks are unbelievable. Simply gorgeous. You definitely have that touch. I can only imagine what your SW tank is going to look like when it is done.
BTW, how much does a FW tank like yours cost? How did you get the plants to grow on the bottom like that.
BTW, how much does a FW tank like yours cost? How did you get the plants to grow on the bottom like that.
dapellegrini
New member
Thanks. The 17 gallon probably cost about $1100 to setup.
- $400 for 24-inch Tek Light (4x24w T5HO), Bulbs, Hanging Kit and Custom Hardware
- $100 for the rimless tank
- $200 for Eheim Pro II Filter, Media, and Inline Heater
- $300 for CO2 tank, regulator, controller and diffuser
- $100 misc - fish, plants, rocks, substrate and ferts
The 72-gallon was closer to $5000 all-in - but some of that was buying equipment twice - after learning the hard way that you get what you pay for in this hobby...
There are a number of FW plants that will give you this carpet effect. The one you are interested in is call Hemianthus Callitrichoides (HC for short). I think many SW folks are unfamiliar with the high-tech side of the FW hobby - which can be pretty cool.
Anyways, on this little reef nano I am setting up, I want to make sure I buy the right light and the right pump/filter. Does anyone out there use one of those Aqua Medic 70w (or 150w) Ocean Light Pendants? They are rather hard to come by and I have only found a few, mixed reviews (some claims that the ballast gives out within a year)... ???
- $400 for 24-inch Tek Light (4x24w T5HO), Bulbs, Hanging Kit and Custom Hardware
- $100 for the rimless tank
- $200 for Eheim Pro II Filter, Media, and Inline Heater
- $300 for CO2 tank, regulator, controller and diffuser
- $100 misc - fish, plants, rocks, substrate and ferts
The 72-gallon was closer to $5000 all-in - but some of that was buying equipment twice - after learning the hard way that you get what you pay for in this hobby...
There are a number of FW plants that will give you this carpet effect. The one you are interested in is call Hemianthus Callitrichoides (HC for short). I think many SW folks are unfamiliar with the high-tech side of the FW hobby - which can be pretty cool.
Anyways, on this little reef nano I am setting up, I want to make sure I buy the right light and the right pump/filter. Does anyone out there use one of those Aqua Medic 70w (or 150w) Ocean Light Pendants? They are rather hard to come by and I have only found a few, mixed reviews (some claims that the ballast gives out within a year)... ???
Thanks for the info, Dan!
I've never had a FW tank before because I always thought they were ugly. But after looking at your FW tanks, I was wrong. But it looks like you spend quite a bit of money into those tanks for FW as well. Ya, you do get what you pay for in this hobby though.
I've never had a FW tank before because I always thought they were ugly. But after looking at your FW tanks, I was wrong. But it looks like you spend quite a bit of money into those tanks for FW as well. Ya, you do get what you pay for in this hobby though.
mangus7175
New member
For a small 5G tank you really don't even need a filter or a skimmer if you are planning on weekly water changes IMO. All you need is good flow and the right lighting. So if you really want something with not a whole lot of equipment hanging out, I suggest just having a small powerhead (if you can find a small one similar to a wavemaker it would be better - changes the flow pattern).
Love the planted tanks BTW. I am planning on actually setting up a small 2.5G Hex into one for my desk at work.
Love the planted tanks BTW. I am planning on actually setting up a small 2.5G Hex into one for my desk at work.
mangus7175
New member
I forgot to ask - What are you planning to have on your tank? If you are planning on keeping simply soft corals T5's or PC's will work just fine. If you are however, thinking of having some clams, anemone's, acros and or monti's then I would go with MH (10K or 14K bulbs with actinic supplements to enhance color).
As far as MH goes make sure the 5G can handle the heat of the lamp. A friend of mine added the 70W pendant on his 6G JBJ nano and after a few weeks the tank cracked from the heat.
As far as MH goes make sure the 5G can handle the heat of the lamp. A friend of mine added the 70W pendant on his 6G JBJ nano and after a few weeks the tank cracked from the heat.
nynex
New member
Yes on a 5 gallon you will need some kind of mechanical filtration..
I have a 3 gallon pico...and yes you need filtration. I tried the powerhead only
approach and it did not work. Now I have two Red Sea Nano Filters one with filter
pads and the other with a bag of Seachem Purigen. Plus I have an 80 gph powerhead
and have nice flow. I thought the live rock and live sand would be enough filtration,
but I wasnt happy with the outcome. Water is much more crisp and clear with the
added mechanical filtration...
I thought about removing one of the nano filters and adding a Aquaclear 20
refugium, But i didnt. Im having a 13x13x12 Acrylic cube made and Im going
to transfer everyone out of the 3 gal and then use the 3 gal as the refugium.
I have a 3 gallon pico...and yes you need filtration. I tried the powerhead only
approach and it did not work. Now I have two Red Sea Nano Filters one with filter
pads and the other with a bag of Seachem Purigen. Plus I have an 80 gph powerhead
and have nice flow. I thought the live rock and live sand would be enough filtration,
but I wasnt happy with the outcome. Water is much more crisp and clear with the
added mechanical filtration...
I thought about removing one of the nano filters and adding a Aquaclear 20
refugium, But i didnt. Im having a 13x13x12 Acrylic cube made and Im going
to transfer everyone out of the 3 gal and then use the 3 gal as the refugium.
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dapellegrini
New member
How often do you do water changes, and how much?
I have ordered 2 Tunze Universal Mini 5024.04 Powerheads and will be ordering the 70w Aquamedic HQI Pendant at the end of the week. Consensus is I don't need a filter, though I may still get one. Someone I work with said that a canister filter can actually cause more problems that it solves - serving as a nitrate farm - and that I would need to clean it weekly??? I would not use a HOB on this tank...
I have ordered 2 Tunze Universal Mini 5024.04 Powerheads and will be ordering the 70w Aquamedic HQI Pendant at the end of the week. Consensus is I don't need a filter, though I may still get one. Someone I work with said that a canister filter can actually cause more problems that it solves - serving as a nitrate farm - and that I would need to clean it weekly??? I would not use a HOB on this tank...
nynex
New member
I do water changes once a week...on all my tanks.
But like I said Im having a 13x13x12 cube tank made..and my 3 gallon is
going to become a refugium..right next to it. Behind it will be a 2 gallon with
filter pads, polishing pads and most likely a nano skimmer. All 3 tanks will be
connected with bulkheads,pumps...ect..These tanks are all acrylic, so drilling
and adding bulkheads is no problem.
I hate canister filters...they are a huge Nitrate farm!! and do not work good
for saltwater..
Whats wrong with HOB filters...on small nanos/picos they work great. You have
never done saltwater before..you are gonna soon realize you need some form
of mechanical filtration. You would be better just using a good HOB protein
skimmer, plus a 80 gph powerhead.
Also 70 watt MH on a 5 gal??? I love MH..But thats way overkill in my opinion..
Good luck with your heat issues...you better hang that thing high from the ceiling
so you dont give your livestock photoshock or worse turn your tank into a 5 gal
hot tub...lol You need to keep your tank at about 77 or 78. Esp with corals.
I honestly think for your first SW tank..you are going too small. You really should
start with atleast a 10 gal or a 12 gal aquapod with an open top. Your 70 watt MH
would work better and I think you would be happier with the results.
Again your Planted tanks are Awesome!! I may be asking you advice on making
one of those someday...
But like I said Im having a 13x13x12 cube tank made..and my 3 gallon is
going to become a refugium..right next to it. Behind it will be a 2 gallon with
filter pads, polishing pads and most likely a nano skimmer. All 3 tanks will be
connected with bulkheads,pumps...ect..These tanks are all acrylic, so drilling
and adding bulkheads is no problem.
I hate canister filters...they are a huge Nitrate farm!! and do not work good
for saltwater..
Whats wrong with HOB filters...on small nanos/picos they work great. You have
never done saltwater before..you are gonna soon realize you need some form
of mechanical filtration. You would be better just using a good HOB protein
skimmer, plus a 80 gph powerhead.
Also 70 watt MH on a 5 gal??? I love MH..But thats way overkill in my opinion..
Good luck with your heat issues...you better hang that thing high from the ceiling
so you dont give your livestock photoshock or worse turn your tank into a 5 gal
hot tub...lol You need to keep your tank at about 77 or 78. Esp with corals.
I honestly think for your first SW tank..you are going too small. You really should
start with atleast a 10 gal or a 12 gal aquapod with an open top. Your 70 watt MH
would work better and I think you would be happier with the results.
Again your Planted tanks are Awesome!! I may be asking you advice on making
one of those someday...
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thrillreefer
New member
With the diligence you've shown in maintaining those stunning planted tanks, you won't have trouble taking care of detritus during weekly water changes. I'd be curious to see the results of a nano with just good light and flow that had no mech. filter/skimmer but recieved large water changes weekly (i.e. 50-75%) as the only form of nutrient export. If the water quality suffers, you'll be able to tell by the health of the corals and then you can always add a small skimmer if necessary
If the tank won't overheat (or if youre willing to buy a chiller), go for the 70W halide all the way. There's nothing like the shimmer effect thrown from an open top tank with good surface agitation, and you can't match the intensity any other way. Even on larger tanks, I never like to have the halides closer than about 10-12 inches from the surface. I think 4-6 like was recommended earlier will be a mistake because of heat issues. With the right reflector, you can still spot light the tank from this height.
I ran my 55 for almost two years with no skimmer, sump or filter and just a makeshift corner overflow for surface skimming. The corals (soft, LPS and SPS, anemones) thrived and only started going downhill when my water change schedule did first. And I never did changes more frequently than about 1/3 every 2 weeks. So I don't think a 5 gal filterless nano is out of the question.
If the tank won't overheat (or if youre willing to buy a chiller), go for the 70W halide all the way. There's nothing like the shimmer effect thrown from an open top tank with good surface agitation, and you can't match the intensity any other way. Even on larger tanks, I never like to have the halides closer than about 10-12 inches from the surface. I think 4-6 like was recommended earlier will be a mistake because of heat issues. With the right reflector, you can still spot light the tank from this height.
I ran my 55 for almost two years with no skimmer, sump or filter and just a makeshift corner overflow for surface skimming. The corals (soft, LPS and SPS, anemones) thrived and only started going downhill when my water change schedule did first. And I never did changes more frequently than about 1/3 every 2 weeks. So I don't think a 5 gal filterless nano is out of the question.
reefer1024
New member
I think you will be much better off with a filter. It will keep your water a lot clearer and carbon is great for absorbing all sorts of things you don't want in your tank. I do a water change twice a week in my 2.5 gallon yet I would never go without my filter.
Nynex: I'm setting up a 12" cube right now. PM me and we can share trade secrets. I find it strange that you hate canister filters yet you think that HOB filters work great. I don't see any real difference besides how they attach to the tank. In my opinion either 1 could be a "nitrate factory" if the are not cleaned often or they both could be really useful if maintained properly.
I ran a canister filter on my 46 bowfront with good results for a long time then after reading all the junk about nitrate factories I removed it. After I removed it I saw a decrease in water quality and clarity and I had a small cyno outbreak. I put it back on and my problems went away. I think the most important thing is to clean them often before to much garbage collects in them and starts to rot(but if its not rotting in your filter its rotting in your tank).
Also I think 77-78 is a bit cool. you wont run into any problems till you pass 85 but i think 80-83 would be ideal.
just my 2 cents
Nynex: I'm setting up a 12" cube right now. PM me and we can share trade secrets. I find it strange that you hate canister filters yet you think that HOB filters work great. I don't see any real difference besides how they attach to the tank. In my opinion either 1 could be a "nitrate factory" if the are not cleaned often or they both could be really useful if maintained properly.
I ran a canister filter on my 46 bowfront with good results for a long time then after reading all the junk about nitrate factories I removed it. After I removed it I saw a decrease in water quality and clarity and I had a small cyno outbreak. I put it back on and my problems went away. I think the most important thing is to clean them often before to much garbage collects in them and starts to rot(but if its not rotting in your filter its rotting in your tank).
Also I think 77-78 is a bit cool. you wont run into any problems till you pass 85 but i think 80-83 would be ideal.
just my 2 cents
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nynex
New member
reefer1024 cool...I will PM you..
I think what I hate about Canisters is cleaning them!! I always
thought it was a royal pain..LOL
I think HOB's are easier to maintain on a pico or a small nano. Also instead
of carbon..Try Seachem Purigen..Its a million times better then carbon.
Water will stay crystal clear..
As far as the temp goes..
According to Robert Fenner and Julian Sprung..who are both highly respected
experts in Marine Biology and The Saltwater Aquarium Hobby...
Both say in several books that soft and hard corals do not like anything over 79
degrees, and that corals will actually thrive and do better in water that is
kept at a constant 77 or 78 degrees. They say that anything 80 to 82 for
a short period will not hurt them..but will stress them out and anything
above that is dangerous.
Now how true that is...well im sure alot of people will say different..but Ive found
keeping my tanks at a constant 78 degrees has worked very well.
I think what I hate about Canisters is cleaning them!! I always
thought it was a royal pain..LOL
I think HOB's are easier to maintain on a pico or a small nano. Also instead
of carbon..Try Seachem Purigen..Its a million times better then carbon.
Water will stay crystal clear..
As far as the temp goes..
According to Robert Fenner and Julian Sprung..who are both highly respected
experts in Marine Biology and The Saltwater Aquarium Hobby...
Both say in several books that soft and hard corals do not like anything over 79
degrees, and that corals will actually thrive and do better in water that is
kept at a constant 77 or 78 degrees. They say that anything 80 to 82 for
a short period will not hurt them..but will stress them out and anything
above that is dangerous.
Now how true that is...well im sure alot of people will say different..but Ive found
keeping my tanks at a constant 78 degrees has worked very well.
dapellegrini
New member
Well - I am perhaps mounting a feeble attempt at a minimalist/modern looking setup without a sump. I will be using a rimless glass (not drilled) tank and suspended light. Every piece of equipment that is not necessary will be avoided. Of course, not to the detriment of the setup - but what I do use I would like to follow the same theme of modern, sleek, small and unobtrusive.
Seems to be a lot of debate about how much light is enough and how much is too much. I am ok with a little trial and error on my part here, as the topic seems to be one of many opinions.
I also do not see the difference between an HOB and a canister - except that a canister is not hanging on the back. What if I just filled the canister with liverock and/or filter floss? How much mechanical filtration is typically in a sump? Or is this usually accomplished with a skimmer in the sump?
Thanks for all of the feedback! Sounds like I need to shoot for the same temp as my FW temps - which also don't like to be above 78... Though I did read in a few places (couldn't give references) that the ideal temp was 80-83 for a reef tank, thus I was thinking that if the light serves a double purpose as a heater - all the better. Again - it sounds like I am going to have to take the plunge and see what works best for me. How much heat do these 70w pendants really put off?
Seems to be a lot of debate about how much light is enough and how much is too much. I am ok with a little trial and error on my part here, as the topic seems to be one of many opinions.
I also do not see the difference between an HOB and a canister - except that a canister is not hanging on the back. What if I just filled the canister with liverock and/or filter floss? How much mechanical filtration is typically in a sump? Or is this usually accomplished with a skimmer in the sump?
Thanks for all of the feedback! Sounds like I need to shoot for the same temp as my FW temps - which also don't like to be above 78... Though I did read in a few places (couldn't give references) that the ideal temp was 80-83 for a reef tank, thus I was thinking that if the light serves a double purpose as a heater - all the better. Again - it sounds like I am going to have to take the plunge and see what works best for me. How much heat do these 70w pendants really put off?
reefer1024
New member
Nynex: I agree canisters are a royal pain to clean. In my HOB I use carbon and purigen in a poly filter sandwich. It works really well.
There are lots of different reef habitats with a wide variety of temp conditions so I guess its kinda silly for us to say 1 temp is the only thing that will work. Check out the graph of Fiji water temps halfway down the page on this link. I find it very intersting.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...erpage=25&highlight=temperature&pagenumber=10
For what its worth I forgot to turn on my AC when i went to work last week on a 100 degree day and when i got home my 2.5 was 88.4 and nothing looked bothered at all. Fish SPS, LPS, zoas and rics all fine.
There are lots of different reef habitats with a wide variety of temp conditions so I guess its kinda silly for us to say 1 temp is the only thing that will work. Check out the graph of Fiji water temps halfway down the page on this link. I find it very intersting.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...erpage=25&highlight=temperature&pagenumber=10
For what its worth I forgot to turn on my AC when i went to work last week on a 100 degree day and when i got home my 2.5 was 88.4 and nothing looked bothered at all. Fish SPS, LPS, zoas and rics all fine.
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reefer1024
New member
dapellegrini: Im not sure how much heat a 70watt will put out, but I doubt it will be more then you can take care of with a fan as long as your house does not go over 80 degrees. Im going to put a 150 watt Aqua medic pendant over my 7.5 gallon 12" cube 
I hope to be able to cool it with just fans and AC. If you can wait a week for my tank to finish being built I can tell you if it worked or if I had to buy a chiller. I asked a lot of people here and they seem to think I would be able to get by using fans. Only time will tell.
I hope to be able to cool it with just fans and AC. If you can wait a week for my tank to finish being built I can tell you if it worked or if I had to buy a chiller. I asked a lot of people here and they seem to think I would be able to get by using fans. Only time will tell.
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