RO/DI and water quality questions

[PDAlber]

How do you know if your ro/di is removing everything harmful from your water and/or that your tds meter is accurate? I am at a point where I am about to break down my tank and say enough is enough. The system has been running for several years and has had its ups and downs. However, my coral growth has always been agonizingly slow (at best). I have spent lots of money on quality components and work hard to keep up with routine maintenance. Over the years I have transitioned from PC to T5 to Halide to LED, yet my results are always the same.

I have tried kalk in my topoff, 2-part (manually and automated) and both kalk and 2-part togetber. I have always suspected some type of chemistry problem because I seem to have to dose more than what I should need. I have seen amazing tanks using only kalk, but my setup, with far fewer stony corals, outpaced full strenght kalk. I test the parameters regularly and work hard to keep them in line, but have very slow coralline growth to go with the stagnant sps growth.

A few months ago, I started to see some improving colors and modest growth in a couple of acros. However, over the past few weeks I've watched one of those colonies lose its color and start bleaching. The others are also suffering, including some lps colonies that have done fairly well over the years. The only thing I can think of as a possible cause is the water. Ive been using the same ro/di from the beginning (Buckeye field supply 75gpd) and recently replaced the carbon and setiment filters. The tds always reads at or near zero. Does that mean the water is safe? What if my tds meter is wrong? I can replace all of the filters, including the di and the membrane, but I dont want to throw my money away if thats not the problem. Any suggestions or advice?

 

[mrx66699]

ok first off where are your meters on your rodi unit if they are just at the incoming and the outgoing of the unit then you have no way of checking the ro membrane to see if it is working at optimal performance or in need of being changed out.....you need to look up the membrane manufacturer and see what the % of rejection rate is on the unit you are using ....if its 98% then do the math by measuring the amount of tds coming in and then the amount of tds coming out of the ro membrane and see if its within the 98% rejection rate.......what this means to you is more efficiency out of your di and ro membranes .....

I have 2 portible TDS meters you could check your system with them or bring yours over and check it against my unit.....I run 2 dual inline meters and one ro membrane meter....

 

[PDAlber]

My system has only a pressure gauge. I'm using a handheld tds meter to measure the tds in the final product. If the water in my holding tank reads zero, or maybe one, can there still be contaminants in the water that will harm my tank?

 

[rps3]

Change it all out, get a new membrane and chloramines filters as well as DI. I'm speaking from personal experience and from others who have been in the same situation.

My tank was going south out of no where and couldn't figure it out myself. I have a fellow reefer less then 2 miles within the same district. He was complaining about high TDS, even with new filters. After going back and fourth with BRS and the city water district, he changed everything out and over to chloramines filters. Instantly he said things were getting back to normal. I never gave it a thought as to why my tank was going south. Spoke with the elder of FMAS, Eddie and he said the same thing. All along my TDS showed zero but that doesn't detect chloramines. It's been maybe less then a month and I've seen a dramatic improvement in my tank.

 

[rovster]

Change it all out, get a new membrane and chloramines filters as well as DI. I'm speaking from personal experience and from others who have been in the same situation.

My tank was going south out of no where and couldn't figure it out myself. I have a fellow reefer less then 2 miles within the same district. He was complaining about high TDS, even with new filters. After going back and fourth with BRS and the city water district, he changed everything out and over to chloramines filters. Instantly he said things were getting back to normal. I never gave it a thought as to why my tank was going south. Spoke with the elder of FMAS, Eddie and he said the same thing. All along my TDS showed zero but that doesn't detect chloramines. It's been maybe less then a month and I've seen a dramatic improvement in my tank.

You're lucky to have smart friends close by:crazy1:

 

[mrx66699]

My system has only a pressure gauge. I'm using a handheld tds meter to measure the tds in the final product. If the water in my holding tank reads zero, or maybe one, can there still be contaminants in the water that will harm my tank?

Thats a big mistake not to have any way to measure things except a portable meter .....first thing do NOT throw away all your filters just to be throwing them away just yet unless you just like spending money and since you havent spent the small amount it takes to purchase some inline meters then Im going to assume thats not your situation with disposable income.....lets find out which problem you have and address it properly rather than just scraping everything and then putting in all new that may be right back in this situation a month later......

was your unit new when purchased or used...

did you add on any new containers to it like a second DI or a second sediment filter or make any changes to the unit....(meaning could you have hooked up a line incorrectly)

you need to measure what the incoming tds is directly into the ro membrane and then what it is coming out .....this will give you the rejection rate with some simple math

next are you going threw a ton of DI to keep the unit producing 0 TDS
(if so first checkpoint will be the ro membrane and second will be the amount of incoming TDS it may be off the charts and your setup is not adequate to take care of it in its initial state that it is at the moment)

get your portable meter checked against someones water who has multiple check points and can be certain they are at 0

if these points dont correct things now its time to call your local water dept and see what additives are being injected into the water like the chloramines

your unit overall should be shooting for 0 anything else and its time to change or adjust something.....

now if everything is working perfectly and your getting 0 and no chloramines are present in the water then we have other issues not the water in your RODI

 

[Zoodiver]

.....
next are you going threw a ton of DI to keep the unit producing 0 TDS
(if so first checkpoint will be the ro membrane and second will be the amount of incoming TDS it may be off the charts and your setup is not adequate to take care of it in its initial state that it is at the moment)......

This was my first thought.
It seems like lately many of the cities around here have been using a extra supplements to the water that are over powering RO/DI units. The city of Davie does a strong chemical hit about every four weeks, and wipes out my media on that unit monthly (requires changing carbon bed, DI bed, sediment filter and RO membranes).

 

[PDAlber]

Thank you so much for the advice. This has really been frustrating. I purchased the filter system new And I change out the filters fairly regularly. I do not use an excessive amount of DI. When I get home tonight I'll take some measurements and let you know. I exchanged some emails with Buckeye Field supply. They said that if there is chloramine in the water, which I'm quite sure there is, I could have traces of ammonia in the water and still be getting a "zero"reading on my tds meter. They suggested adding a prefilter with a second carbon block for chloramine. I think I'm going to order it along with the in-line tds meters you suggested.

 

[rps3]

Yeah, most of the S. FL area water districts are using chloramines to treat the water.

It is also true that TDS will not pick up traces of chloramines. They have a test kit out there but not worth the cost for a one time test. It's better to call your water district to find out or go online and see if they have the reports.

 

[PDAlber]

Water test results:

Out of the tap TDS: 89
Out of the RO TDS: 9
Out of the DI TDS: 2

The RO membrane is supposed to reject 98 percent.

 

[DRThompson]

Those numbers are pretty good. I live in Coral Springs and my tap measures nearly 200 TDS. I would double check that final number with a handheld. There is a margin of error on the tds meters.

 

[AquamanE]

Change it all out, get a new membrane and chloramines filters as well as DI. I'm speaking from personal experience and from others who have been in the same situation.

My tank was going south out of no where and couldn't figure it out myself. I have a fellow reefer less then 2 miles within the same district. He was complaining about high TDS, even with new filters. After going back and fourth with BRS and the city water district, he changed everything out and over to chloramines filters. Instantly he said things were getting back to normal. I never gave it a thought as to why my tank was going south. Spoke with the elder of FMAS, Eddie and he said the same thing. All along my TDS showed zero but that doesn't detect chloramines. It's been maybe less then a month and I've seen a dramatic improvement in my tank.

Thanks for the "elder" comment. I love you too, lol

I am an SPS keeper for many years. I have had great success, I have also had a few melt downs.

Both of my major meltdowns have been related to RO/DI issues. The first was due to low pressure into the unit. The second im guessing was due to Chloramines, because once i changed to the filter guys chloramine filters everything came back. MIND YOU AT ALL TIMES WITH THESE 2 MELTDOWNS MY TDS READ ZERO.

Ide follow Matts advice. Dont give up, once you fiqure it out you be saying to yourself, ***, why didnt i thing of this before. Thats how this hobby goes.

 

[Rarewon]

I was looking into ordering from BRS a RO/DI. Which unit should I get and with what to not have this happen.

 

[AquamanE]

I was looking into ordering from BRS a RO/DI. Which unit should I get and with what to not have this happen.

Its not about the unit, its about observance on your side.

 

[PDAlber]

Thanks for the "elder" comment. I love you too, lol

I am an SPS keeper for many years. I have had great success, I have also had a few melt downs.

Both of my major meltdowns have been related to RO/DI issues. The first was due to low pressure into the unit. The second im guessing was due to Chloramines, because once i changed to the filter guys chloramine filters everything came back. MIND YOU AT ALL TIMES WITH THESE 2 MELTDOWNS MY TDS READ ZERO.

Ide follow Matts advice. Dont give up, once you fiqure it out you be saying to yourself, ***, why didnt i thing of this before. Thats how this hobby goes.

Thanks for the encouragement. An additional filter housing and chloramine filters will be on the way soon. And you're right, if after all this time the problem turns out to be something so simple I will be saying #*$%!

 

[mrx66699]

lol there you go ....let me know if you need any assistance on the meters which ones to get...

 

[Rarewon]

Its not about the unit, its about observance on your side.

I guess i'm asking about the "Chloramine filters" in general and anything else needed with it not to have this problem or any issue. Without buying another unit to tell me what my choramine lvls are & and if Dade county decide they want to inject more of choramine in the water system, why wait? I rather just have the unit or prefilter setup already.

 

[88rxna]

i hate to budge in but i may be experiencing the same problem. some of my SPS are doing OK, some i get to watch the flesh peal off and die. i remember my water company telling me i have around 30PSI into my house. i have 1 TDS meter and thats the outlet line of the finished product of my RODI.
so first thing i see i need is a pressure gauge to really see where i am into the unit. then ill move it after the filters right before the membrane.
ill prob need a booster pump also. AND, i am gonna order a new dual TDS meter. then, tuesday i am calling my water company to see what they are using. i remember them saying soda ash and chlorine. just not sure what type of chlorine.

on second thought. do i need a pressure gauge before the membrane and a TDS meter before the membrane?

 

[mrx66699]

pressure gauge should be right before the RO membrane and dial in the booster pump so you have around 67 psi going into the ro membrane......place one of the dual tds meters right before the ro membrane and one right after ....I like to use 2 dual tds meters and then I the second unit with one of the meters on the overall incoming and one at the end after the di ......

 

[rps3]

So what do you think Matt? I have 80psi when the water hits the membrane or that's what it reads on the gauge. Overkill for a 75gpd membrane?