RO or Tap?

[Meeker]

Just a quick thought here, but if we're dosing like FW tanks anyways, does it matter if we're using tap water or RO/DI water anymore since we'll be using the bulk of the nitrates being imported in from the water changes? This of course is assuming that everything else stays static in your water. Just a quick question as I'm itching to use my recently vacated eclipse 6 for my first foray into both a Salt Water Tank and a Planted one at that. And no I don't plan to put in a tang...

Meeker

 

[jimmyray]

There are a lot of unknowns in tap water. Maybe the nitrates are okay, but what about dissolved metals, unwanted minerals, etc. They will build up over time. Better to use DI or RO and know exactly what's going in.

 

[Samala]

I use tap water.. call your local water board (or whomever you get your water from) and request a report on the lastest tested parameters for your water. I like to pay attention to things like fluoride, chloramines, chlorines, bromine, etc. Also copper, lead, cyanide, nitrate, phosphates. They should give you a chart with how the water tests out and the EPA guidelines to show that they are within the standard accepted value ranges.

If it causes you sleepless nights to use tap water, and since its a small tank, consider using Catalina or Nutrisea packaged water. Either of these are often carried by the big chains like Petco, Petsmart, etc. Sold by the five gallons usually.. a little expensive, but probably a lot easier than getting the whole RO/DI deal and all the salt to go with it. I think Catalina has a website - google for it.

HTH
>Sarah

 

[jimmyray]

If you don't want to buy a RO/DI unit, just use the water vending machines. There are likely some at nearby grocery stores, or maybe even a store that specializes in water (at least they do here in the desert!). Most of these machines use RO and ozone.

 

[Plantbrain]

I use tap and suggest it unless it's rather high in PO4.
The rest in context of a macro algae tank is not signficant from what I've found dosing all the other various elements and ions.

FW tanks are even more resistent to PO4, actually I do not know how much P04 is needed to induce a negative growth rate with weeds.

It's well over 5ppm of PO4, far beyond levels found.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[jimmyray]

I agree, Plantbrian, however, I think that meeker may be planning on putting fish in his tank also, and if that's the case, there are too many unknowns to risk it. I say it's worth the pennies a gallon for peace of mind.

 

[Plantbrain]

I have not found the fish issue is an issue, I think the whole issue is one of nutrients and algae, eg, PO4, etc contributing to fish only algae, sensitive inverts etc, not fish health..........

Do you have concrete evidence to the contrary?
Key word is concrete.

I've kept fish for a very long time and worked in a LFS since I was little kid, long before anyone had even heard of RO's, Wet dry filters etc...........we did well, we used tap and so did everyone else.

I use RO, it taste great. It won't hunt, except perhaps your wallet.

In any event, if you have macro's plants etc, the tap is not an issue, plants/macro's remove the issues that evolve from tap/waste etc, that's the point..........

That's why I use plants in the first place, it removes things as they enter into the system, RO just helps ....for the reset/water change only.

Unless you large frequent water changes(like I do), it will make a much less significant impact as the plant's removal rate quickly reduces any concentration.

Do you do 25-75% weekly or 2x a month changes?
Not very practical on a large tank, but for experimenting like I do on smaller tanks, it works well.

Reef's included. I've discussed this with several dozen reef study groups at various clubs around the USA.
But if there is alot of PO4, then it can be useful, but I've never see any use for fish............

You need to ask your self what assumptions are safe, then see if they are.

Happy plants= happy fish, this is one truth that has always held up in any ecosystem.

Start at the base, not at the top of food chain.
Corals and some inverts are a different case, but this about weeds/fish.


Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[Seahorsewisprer]

Hey, I was thinking the same thing last week!

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=626585


These guys asked me if I lived in America! Our water really bites.....

 

[Plantbrain]

High NO3 can be a slight issue, but PO4 is the main issue.
As we can easily test with either using RO and then dosing known amounts of PO4/NO3, it's not hard to disprove some notions about usage of RO.

This type of testing is seldom done..................if ever in the hobby but it's a very simple test.

So.......why is it not done? Destroying or trashing a tank for a test to answer a question is seldom a goal of a hobbyist.

Few are willing to do that.

I don't mind and am interested in it.
Why? Because over timer, it's less work and I know I no longer need RO.

Saves time, $, and work and I'm lazy.
I don't mind work that does help, but I focus on significant things and I test the horticultural practices myself since few seem to have done any real test prior with respect to plants/macro and micro algae.

Clear evidence for the laxck of real testing and "research" is they did not test to see if PO4 and NO3 caused algae or not by adding these on purpose.

Most everyone focused on the aftermath and residual levels and correlated that with the causation of algae.

But........as any scientist worth their salt knows.............correlation does not imply causation.

And anyone without a scientific background also knows, if NO3 is suppose to cause algae, why is their none in the marine planted tanks? We cannot quite say the same with respect to PO4..........but we can add a relative fair amount without a diatom bloom if the other parameters are in a good range.

Those other parameters must be in a good range though...........otherwise you have not isolated the real issue you wish to test.

Basic questions (and reexamination of them often) can really help.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[Seahorsewisprer]

Tom, I'm not worried about the evil I know! The water report I got from our city has the levels of the stuff the EPA says it must test for, but they don't add up to the TDS level!

The nitrate is what I want to add, and phosphates can be dealt with with a lot of macro, but do you worry about copper, arsenic, barium, ect? I asked the chem guys if activated carbon would remove these elements, but didn't get an answer. If AC can remove them, I wouldn't have to worry about them building to toxic levels, right? Can AC remove copper, arsenic, barium, ect?

I would love to be able to use our tap water!

Thanks!!!

 

[Plantbrain]

AC does remove the trace metals generally.
Often they complex with organics and then are easily removed.

Plants assimilate all these trace amounts of by products and are exported every week or two out of the system. Skimmers can get some of them as well.

These are really low levels of these elements and the plants have little trouble using them, Copper is a plant nutrient thus a requirement for growth in PS II as well as a few other enzymes.

Too much copper will denature enzymes though.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[Seahorsewisprer]

Cool! Thanks!!!