Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?

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finneganswake

In Memoriam
I was hoping to get some expert advice on what I see as the newest unfounded fad on RC--"cooking" your live rock. It's all over the general forum; pretty much any algae issue that is presented is answered by a chorus of "Have you cooked your rocks yet?" Not "What are your husbandry procedures," "Do you use RO/DI," "Do you overfeed," etc. It's always about the rock "cooking." If you aren't familiar with this procedure, it's basically something started by the same people who used to answer all algae issues with "Have you removed your sandbed yet?" instead of asking the probing questions I've previously mentioned. This "go bare bottom" trend was sold as a cure-all that was going to forever remove the chances of a tank having algae problems. When it turned out that the people who were blaming their sandbed for their problems still had algae issues after removing it, the next step was not to question their husbandry but to blame the rocks. They say that "uncooked" rocks leach phosphate (didn't we hear the same thing about sandbeds?) and through their "shedding" constantly dump detritus into the tank. Their solution is to "cook" the rocks by (and this is a somewhat simplified version of the treatment, but it should suffice) removing them from the aquarium, putting them in a dark container for months while swishing them every week or so. At the end of the process, you have what is, in my opinion, dead rock, although the proponents of this treatment claim that somehow only nuisance organisms are killed. One thing that leads me to believe that this process doesn't work is that many people have algae problems after "cooking" their rocks; these people are told that they didn't "cook" them long enough, or that they just need to do it again--it's not uncommon to hear that you need to do this every few months.

I want your opinion on this in the hope that people will be more likely to listen to you than to me. Is this cutting off the leg to save the toe? It seems to me to be a very desperate maneuver and unlikely to offer any longterm results compared to a thorough look at what factors caused the problem to begin with. If this is such a necessity (and it is being promoted as something you have to do to keep algae out of your tank, as eventually the rocks will leach so much phosphate that your tank will crash) how come nobody that I know with a nice, algae-free tank has ever "cooked" their rocks?

Thanks for your help.
 
Seems to me it is a good idea if you have one or two "new" chunks of LR that has some undesirable growth on them. Otherwise, I feel that proper maintenance of the tank, including regular water changes, will keep all life, good and bad, in check.

My old 94 gallon tank was loaded with hair algae. When I upgraded to a 180 and replaced all the water, the algae problem went away.

I now do 40-60 gallon water changes in my 180 about 1x per month. The other weeks, I routinely change about 20 gallons.

ri
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6609489#post6609489 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ri
Seems to me it is a good idea if you have one or two "new" chunks of LR that has some undesirable growth on them.

The thing is, this is being sold as something you do whenever you have algae problems, not just for new rocks. Although I personally cure rocks with the lights on, I could understand why someone might want to do it with the lights off. However, this goes way beyond curing--they don't say to do it until your rock is cycled, they want you to do it until there is no more "shedding," which to me means there is nothing left alive to create detritus.
 
Re: Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?

You made this whole thread worthless with this single statement.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6609402#post6609402 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by finneganswake
I was hoping to get some expert advice on what I see as the newest unfounded fad on RC--"cooking" your live rock.
Yet aother attempt at you to misrepresent the facts.
There are articles, studies, journals galore which show this works.
Not to mention all the success stories (with no unsuccessful stories I have heard about yet) to boot.

Yet, sadly and pettily, you not only choose to not read them and still disclaim them.
Why not educate yourself?
Is it laziness or disbelief?
 
Also,
I will not get into a debate, or even a discussion, with you until you HAVE read the journals.

I strongly urge those who do agree with rock "cooking" to ignore this thread until he has educated himself.

No use banging the head against the wall.

Sean
 
Re: Re: Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?

Re: Re: Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6610591#post6610591 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
You made this whole thread worthless with this single statement.
Yet aother attempt at you to misrepresent the facts.
There are articles, studies, journals galore which show this works.
Not to mention all the success stories (with no unsuccessful stories I have heard about yet) to boot.

Yet, sadly and pettily, you not only choose to not read them and still disclaim them.
Is it laziness or disbelief?

Truly pathetic.

I said I wanted the experts' opinions, not someone who can't keep algae out of his tank.

I'm starting to think that this crusade you're on of dissuading people from using a commonsense approach so that they can keep coming back to you for ways to "tweak" their failed experiments is your only form of personal validation.

Get a life, troll:lol:
 
Re: Re: Re: Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?

Re: Re: Re: Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6610619#post6610619 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by finneganswake
I said I wanted the experts' opinions, not someone who can't keep algae out of his tank.

I'm starting to think that this crusade you're on of dissuading people from using a commonsense approach so that they can keep coming back to you for ways to "tweak" their failed experiments is your only form of personal validation.

Get a life, troll:lol:

You started the same exact thread in two different forums [that I know of...] this one [BTW :rolleyes: the "expert" is no longer even here] and in Randy's chemistry forum [in which you stated after you got his expert backing you'd post in the general forums...]. So who's trying to stir the pot??? YOU... If you don't like/want to cook your rock don't... but for god's sake... no one wants to hear it anymore! Maybe we need a forum just for you, Kimoyo, and Barry... lock you guys in, see who makes it out alive and then Ban the sole survivor :lol:
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6610683#post6610683 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PUGroyale
You started the same exact thread in two different forums [that I know of...] this one [BTW :rolleyes: the "expert" is no longer even here] and in Randy's chemistry forum [in which you stated after you got his expert backing you'd post in the general forums...]. So who's trying to stir the pot??? YOU... If you don't like/want to cook your rock don't... but for god's sake... no one wants to hear it anymore! Maybe we need a forum just for you, Kimoyo, and Barry... lock you guys in, see who makes it out alive and then Ban the sole survivor :lol:

What I'm trying to do is get a consensus from people who are in a position to speak from authority. I absolutely want to stir the pot because I think this is one of the sloppiest, unneccessary and, especially, counterproductive practices as you learn nothing from it. If you want to keep blaming your algae problems on some mystic factor, go ahead, but there are a lot of us out here (coincidentally, the one's who haven't had major algae outbreaks:lol: ) who believe that you should teach newbies to question their husbandry, not their choice of substrate (by the way, how's that "if you go BB, your tank can NEVER crash" scene working out?) or the mojo in their rocks.

I guess you're threatened that I'm asking the experts--after all, they are the ones in on the great conspiracy to conquer the lucrative sand market:lol:
 
Make that 3 forums... I just saw the one in Bornemans old haunts :rolleyes: ...He's gone too. Most of us know his thoughts on cooking rock anyhow :lol: Use a gas mask so the pathogens don't kill you :D
 
BTW Finn... I don't have algea problems. I didn't cook my rock and I have sand in my tank. None of these things stop me from investigating different methods or exploring new [or old for that matter] ideas though. My only agenda is knowledge... not trying to build consensus or prove I'm right. Have a nice day... Im out
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6610803#post6610803 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PUGroyale
Make that 3 forums... I just saw the one in Bornemans old haunts :rolleyes: ...He's gone too. Most of us know his thoughts on cooking rock anyhow :lol: Use a gas mask so the pathogens don't kill you :D

Well, I guess you can keep listening to people who are delusional enough to believe that there is a mountain of scientific studies on rock cooking:lol:

I think one of them is titled "Dr. Rock Chef, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying About Husbandry and Love My Algae-Infested Tank.":clown:
 
Good luck with your efforts... I'm not interested :)

troll.gif
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6610868#post6610868 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PUGroyale
Good luck with your efforts... I'm not interested :)

troll.gif

All bickering aside, I love the sign:)

Now back to the arguing... if this practice is as useless as I believe it to be, I'll happily be labelled a troll if that's what it takes to put it out to pasture. I guess that the people who try to discourage people from using "Reef-Safe Ich Treatments" must also be trolls.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6610847#post6610847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by finneganswake
Well, I guess you can keep listening to people who are delusional enough to believe that there is a mountain of scientific studies on rock cooking:lol:

I think one of them is titled "Dr. Rock Chef, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying About Husbandry and Love My Algae-Infested Tank.":clown:

You know what's funny? That those books are published by the same publisher that wrote:

"Zeovit 101... when my DSB just isn't enough"

I just can't understand why are you so against a controversial method when you advocate one that is just as or more controversial itself. I'm sure you remember the infamous BB Crash Stories thread, (you know the one that you so furiously trolled in), what better thread to "unmask" the conspiracy than that one? And yet there was only 1 or 2 people that posted that had major problems with their setups. FYI "cooking" LR has been around the board for over 2 yrs. now so I guess the "fad" title is pretty much worn out by now, just do a search. What the hell do you care if people want to cook their rock or not? Just say your peace about husbandry when somebody needs advise and move on, I'm sure no body is going to say anything against good husbandry, even if it comes from you.
 
I had HA problems that wouldn't go away. It was due to my poor husbandry. I guess I took the long learning curve route. I cooked the rock and all the HA is gone and hasn't returned. My husbandry practices are much better now. Would I cook "new" rock? Nope. Is there another way? Sure there is. But I didn't want to wait months starving my tank to get there. I really don't understand why you get so worked up over something that works. It's like lots of other methods in this hobby. Lots of them work, but may not be for you. Doesn't mean you have to resort to name calling does it?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6610975#post6610975 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gman0526
You know what's funny? That those books are published by the same publisher that wrote:

"Zeovit 101... when my DSB just isn't enough"

I just can't understand why are you so against a controversial method when you advocate one that is just as or more controversial itself. I'm sure you remember the infamous BB Crash Stories thread, (you know the one that you so furiously trolled in), what better thread to "unmask" the conspiracy than that one? And yet there was only 1 or 2 people that posted that had major problems with their setups. FYI "cooking" LR has been around the board for over 2 yrs. now so I guess the "fad" title is pretty much worn out by now, just do a search. What the hell do you care if people want to cook their rock or not? Just say your peace about husbandry when somebody needs advise and move on, I'm sure no body is going to say anything against good husbandry, even if it comes from you.

Look, I could care less if experienced reefers want to experiment with cooking their rocks. What I have a problem with is the fact that whenever an algae issue comes up, there's a certain crowd that starts chanting "Cook your rocks, cook your rocks" before even asking the most basic questions. This is flat out dangerous to a newbie and likely to cause them to leave the hobby as they are going to go through all of the hassle of rock cooking just to have another algae outbreak because nobody stopped to ask them, "Oh, by the way, how much do you feed? Did you just say you only change 5% water every three months? You haven't changed your bulbs since you bought your tank?"
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6611027#post6611027 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sherm71tank
I had HA problems that wouldn't go away. It was due to my poor husbandry. I guess I took the long learning curve route. I cooked the rock and all the HA is gone and hasn't returned. My husbandry practices are much better now. Would I cook "new" rock? Nope. Is there another way? Sure there is. But I didn't want to wait months starving my tank to get there. I really don't understand why you get so worked up over something that works. It's like lots of other methods in this hobby. Lots of them work, but may not be for you. Doesn't mean you have to resort to name calling does it?

So you're admitting you bought a quick fix? Here's the problem I have--you, luckily, were big enough to admit that you had husbandry issues and changed them; you weren't going to hear that from the rock cooking gurus, as they go no further than to throw down the recipe and walk on to some other thread. Most people who buy the quick fix (again, you seem to be the exception) aren't interested in long term solutions, so their tank ends up crashing again.

I'd be more than willing to sign a truce with these people if they'd put some kind of disclaimer at the end of their recipe--"There are other ways to do this that may not be as destructive to your rocks; despite what some people may tell you, there are numerous people who have never cooked their rocks and haven't ever had algae problems; this by itself will not solve your algae problems--you have to realize that the algae was caused by you, not your rocks, and if you don't change, the algae will come back." I'm not holding my breath.:(
 
I understand what you are saying but I didn't get the same impression from the cooking threads I've read. I recall reading posts from SeanT that algae problems will return if the poor husbandry practices continue. Ah well, I'm glad I did. Happy reefing!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6611078#post6611078 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sherm71tank
I understand what you are saying but I didn't get the same impression from the cooking threads I've read. I recall reading posts from SeanT that algae problems will return if the poor husbandry practices continue. Ah well, I'm glad I did. Happy reefing!

Have you seen the numerous threads which say you WILL have algae problems unless you cook your rocks? It's the sequel to the exploding sandbed;)
 
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