Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?

[Whaledriver]

I just flew through this thread and I wonder why a algea fiter/ refuge isnt mentioned more often. It seems to me that a sperate area growing Cheato 24/7 would suck up nutriants before they could grow on your rocks.
As far as fish go I like my Kole tang and Lawnmower blenny for keeping things clean.

 

[inwall75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6626876#post6626876 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rm
I also never heard of a scooter blenny eating hair algae but will try it.

This is Off-Topic but I wanted to let you know that scooters eat copepods. They might eat a small amount of microalgaes too...I don't know. However, you are not going to see them mowing down hair algae.

 

[Sindjin]

OK...Since I lost my digital camera...actually my wife lost it but its all my fault because...ah forget it... you know how it is...


ANYWAY...

I just took this video clip tonight. I wanted to show you my rock. It entered my tank October 27, 2005. It was UNCURED FIJI from Reefermadness.com. Look carefully and you will also see the base rock I added which will give you something to compare it to.
IMO, the coraline coverage is amazing. Now, my camera is a little off on the color and quality but ...its the best I can do for now.

This is what curing rock in tank with light can produce. It was a lot of hard work and I went thru 6 buckets of salt already. For all you BB'ers... I give a glimpse of how clean it is UNDER my rock, too! Oh yeah... you'll see some of the life I preserved (porites, I think). Woopee.

Let me know what you think.


Clip

 

[gman0526]

The tank is looking really good Sindjin, I see that shedding seems to have diminished. That base rock will be covered with coralline in no time.

 

[Boat Racer]

Thats pretty cool.Nice clean look too

 

[Sindjin]

Thanks. The shedding has diminished yes. All I get accumulating on its own is a small pile every couple days.

BUT... if I take a TBaster to it... look out...although Im beginning to think this is just the way Live rock is. Wont ALL live rock continue to break down and rebuild as time goes own? The natural reefs... corals will grow...calcify to rock...internally rock will harbor bacteria, detritus...in and out...building and breaking down...

BTW... thats not dirt on the bottom... thats coraline.

 

[RichardS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6622066#post6622066 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
With all of these type of threads revolving around p, I am wondering why there is never any mention of polyphosphate accumulating bacteria?

I'm not sure what's to say about them. I don't know that they've been shown to thrive in reef aquaria, and if they do, what does one do with that information?

So you don't think this has any possible application to a sw closed system?

http://www.protein.bio.msu.ru/biokhimiya/contents/v65/pdf/bcm_0341.pdf

 

[boxfishpooalot]

I wonder If adding a carbon sorce like sugar or vodka to the live rocks that are "cooking" would speed this process! I bet you could cut the time down in half!

 

[sm fragman]

i am sorry but i for one dont understand this rock cooking thing ,,your cooking it to get rid of any plant matter ,,basicly killing it off ,,i understand the reason behind it ,,but as soon as you take that rock out of the what you are cooking it in to put it in your tank you will have dieoff ,,from the rock hitting the air ,,all this stuff about going bb and what not ,,come on guys this is the old school way ,,that is how the berlin systems where run back 10 years ago ,,i am chooseing to go bb cause i dont want sand blowing arround with all the flow in my tank ,,who knows i might just add some cc to the bottom ,,i think this method is decieving to a lot of newer people in the hobbie ,,nothing can take the place of good tank mat.,,and i think that is where alot of the problems lie wiht beginners ,,

 

[Sindjin]

The Berlin Method was a stepping stone for reefing. Just like Protein Skimmers and heck.... even wet/dry's. Rock Cooking, IMO is an easier, faster, cheaper method of Curing your rock. Thats it.
Will it aid in giving someone with poor husbandry practices a new start? Yes...but it wont cure the poor husbandry practices. We all know this. Will it help to give a newb an easier foundation to work from when setting up a new tank? Yes.

 

[gman0526]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6630137#post6630137 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boxfishpooalot
I wonder If adding a carbon sorce like sugar or vodka to the live rocks that are "cooking" would speed this process! I bet you could cut the time down in half!

We already played with the idea awhile ago.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=697663

 

[MiddletonMark]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6631897#post6631897 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sindjin
Rock Cooking, IMO is an easier, faster, cheaper method of Curing your rock. Thats it.

Will it aid in giving someone with poor husbandry practices a new start? Yes...but it wont cure the poor husbandry practices. We all know this. Will it help to give a newb an easier foundation to work from when setting up a new tank? Yes.

Why does it give an easier foundation?

I guess that's where Ihave issues with this method - that it's portrayed as `easier, faster, cheaper'.

How is it cheaper than normal cycling? [IMO, probably more expensive given longer period + more water changed]

How is it faster, as cooking [per recommendation] is a longer process than the standard curing? [seems like this is obviously contradictory, as cooking would require more time `post initial cure' for nutrient removal]

How is it easier than normal curing? Seems potentially more labor intensive, or equivalent.

Thus these claims about rock cooking IMO bother some who have cooked their rocks before. The claims being made [and implications that somehow it is `superior'] are self-contradictory and incorrect.

It isn't faster, it isn't cheaper, and is unlikely to be any easier than most curing methods.

I dunno, but I've never found a problem with normal curing methods for new LR.
While I see strong reasons for this method in certain contexts - as a general method for new rock curing I guess I'm totally confused why this has anything on a traditional method.
IMO it's unlikely that any new aquarist would be in a circumstance where rock cooking would be my preferred method for rock preparation. Not impossible, but for 80%+ ... why would they need it?

 

[Sindjin]

Im curing my rock in tank. The "normal" way. Maybe it was just the way I did it... but initially I was SO worried about saving every bit of life that I was changing water like mad. I built the reef then broke it down every three or four days to dunk and swish and clean all the crap out of the tank. I did this not only until the cycle was complete, but until the shedding slowed down.
It was a royal pain. Im still dealing with it and Im 3.5 months in. Although I take a Mag 9.5 to the rock even though not much accumulates on the bottom by itself. I guess I'm just meticulus about it. So maybe my idea of clean rock is different than most. That could be it right their.

Knowing what I know now... I would have cured in a dark BRUTE can and the process would have taken 6 weeks. I would have had the freedom of working in my garage rather than my family room and I wouldn't have the step-stool and big glass box to contend with either. In addition, I wouldn't have changed as much water either, saving on Salt costs. I wouldn't have to attempt to scrub and pluck algaes off because the darkness would have taken care of all that.

My opinion...rock cooking would have been easier and done a better job giving me clean healthy rock which is what my ultimate goal is.

EDIT:

But then again... I am proud of all my hard work curing it in tank. Check out my video clip a few posts up and you will see my Coraline Coverage. Its amazing, IMO, and I am very pleased with my results. But I have been in this hobby for 20 years and worked in it as a kid and in college...even had a maintenance biz back then. I knew what to expect when curing rock. I just never personally thought the dark curing method thru nor thoroughly educated myself about it until I was already in the middle of curing it in-tank.

 

[JER-Z]

what are thoughts, methods of dark curing in tank?

I live in an urban area...high rise, no garage, and a fiance that runs a tight ship and would not tolerate a garbage can full of rocks in the living room...

any suggestions?

 

[Weatherman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6632394#post6632394 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sindjin
But I have been in this hobby for 20 years and worked in it as a kid and in college...even had a maintenance biz back then. I knew what to expect when curing rock. I just never personally thought the dark curing method thru nor thoroughly educated myself about it until I was already in the middle of curing it in-tank.

It is an eye-opener when you go the rock cooking route for the first time with new tank.

For 30 years I had been told that all the cyano and hair algae blooms were inevitable when you set up a new tank. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s something you put up with. Thereââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s simply no way around it. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s part of the ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œmaturationââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ process.

So, I was absolutely amazed at how little nuisance algae growth I got in my 120 during the first six months. Just a thin, barely perceptible dusting.

All I did was go down to the lfs and buy fully cured live rock, put it in the tank with all the pumps and skimmer on. Kept the water warm (right around 80). Occasionally gave the rocks a blast with a MaxiJet. Siphoned out a little detritus that gathered on the bottom. Didnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t turn on the lights for six weeks, and performed one big 80% water change when I was done.

Thatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s it.

I didn't even wait to start adding hard coral to the tank (after the rock cooking was done and I turned the lights on). There was no need to.

 

[Sindjin]

Well, I think I left my lights off for the first few weeks...that was it. Again... I wanted to save all the life.

If I take a Mag 9.5 to my rock, I can still blow quite a bit out of it.
I'm actually not sure if its normal or not. I have been doing this for over 3 months now. The rock doesnt really shed much by itself...in other words I hardly get any accumulation on the BB. But I can blow sand/mineral detritus out with a TBaster or pump.

Part of me thinks this is just normal...that its the "Ebb and Flow" of Live rock... Building and Breaking down.

 

[Ereefic]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6626807#post6626807 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ereefic
I had some SPS die that were attached to my rock, and the skeletons were green, not white, indicating wicking phosphates from the rock. The tank never had any nuisance algae, nor did it ever show po4 with a salifert test kit.

From that, I would assume all corals would die at one point from wicking phosphates up from the rock. What action would you recommend for that rock?

I posted this on the last page, but no one has addressed it, yet.

 

[Weatherman]

If the overall flow in your tank is strong enough and turbulent enough, it should, eventually, keep your rock clean by itself.

I don't blast the rocks in my 120 or my 180 anymore (I did for the first three or four months). The flow is so strong, and either very turbulent or oscillates back and forth so much that additional cleaning isn't needed. I don't even have to siphon detritus out of my 120. The water flow keeps the bottom swept clean.

 

[Weatherman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6632709#post6632709 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ereefic
I posted this on the last page, but no one has addressed it, yet.

The first question I'd ask is:

Are any of the various forms of calcium phosphate green?

 

[sm fragman]

curing rock is curing rock ,,does not matter how you do it as long as you do it ,,the cooking method as everyone is onto now is how you should cure it in the first place ,,but for 15 weeks comeon by the time you take the rock out and play biulding blocks wiht it you will have die off on the rock ,,so spending time cooking it ,,does not make sence to me ,,this whole thing about bare bottom ,,does not make sence to me ,,like a i stated before i choose to go bare bottom because i dont want sand blowing all over my tank ,,not because it is any better than having a sand bed.all the new guys starting see this and think cool i wont have algee problem ,,well not true you have to export the crap out of the tank in one way or another ,,refug,protiem skimming ,the most important one water changes ,,guys telling me to not have a refug. why not i say that is one more way for me to help my system to rid crap...