Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?

[gillies]

Apology accepted. I searched through the NTTH forum but could find nothing about "cooking" there. I'm no chemist, but I'm no newbie to the hobby either. Bare bottom was a big deal when I was building tanks in '84. Funny it's hot again now.

Perhaps I should re-explain my original question. From what I have read, valonia and this "red turf" algae has little to do with "high nutrients." Is this correct, or have I wasted several hundred dollars on a published library, not to mention countless hours on RC?

When posted, problems with either of these algaes is never addresses adequately. Perhaps there is no answer to either one. I am only trying to gain opinion from folks who are more experienced than myself as to whether "cooking" rock could be, however extreme, an answer to this problem. If you have others, feel free...

 

[bertoni]

Unfortunately, algal problems can be all over the place. Algae do need food to grow, but then you have to consider the ability of the various algae to compete against each other, etc.

When I had a red hair algae problem, I was able to kill it off over several months. I was more careful with my feeding, kept my skimmer clean, and adding a macroalga to the system to export more nutrients. With a bit of hand-pruning now and then, the red hair simply faded over time and is now gone. Actually, I've had the stuff in three tanks, and it's gone from all of them.

In two of those tank, the water column was perfectly clean throughout, as far as hobbyist test kits go, and none of the tanks had any damage from nutrients or the red hair alga. I just decided it was ugly, and it would have covered some corals if I had let it go much longer.

Valonia is pretty similar, IME. I have never gotten rid of all of it, but I don't really want to do so, either. It can be outcompeted by a skimmer and Chaetomorpha and Caulerpa, IME. Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[gillies]

Basically my experience also. My tank looks nothing like those presented above in this thread. I'm not overrun with HA or either type I've mentioned having. I just wanted to know what other options there might be. Thanks.

 

[RichardS]

Well I posted on this topic in another forum but since the original post seems to have been posted all over the place I'll copy it here...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6620013#post6620013 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichardS
Just because something is "new" on rc doesn't mean some people have not been doing it for a long time. "Rock cooking" really isn't any different than curing your rock for an extended period of time (several months at least in a dark trash can) beyond the no more ammonia/nitrite point before putting it in your tank. Some, like me, have been doing this for a long time. Guess someone just came up with a catchy name for it other than patience.

I agree there is some "spin" to your post. The same type of things can be said for the dsb approach. Oh you only have 4" of sand...you need 6". Still have problems...you need more sandbed critters - order from ipsf. Still have problems...you need more macro algaes. Whaa? your water is green now...you need uv sterilizer. More problems??? you need a bigger skimmer. Algae still??? oh well you need a phosban reactor or two. Still not happy??? well your tank is overstocked...only one tang per 200 gallons...on and on and on.

There are a bunch of methods that can yield excellent results and they all have their up and downsides. So I think the real question is...Why does it bother you so much?

With the added comment that, at least from what I have read in this thread, the rock cooking thing does seem to be uhhh let's say oversold.

No stony corals if you use fiji rock because of too much p? OK, that's a new one.

You know reef tanks really aren't this hard...

 

[inwall75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6620496#post6620496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichardS
Well I posted on this topic in another forum but since the original post seems to have been posted all over the place I'll copy it here...



With the added comment that, at least from what I have read in this thread, the rock cooking thing does seem to be uhhh let's say oversold.

No stony corals if you use fiji rock because of too much p? OK, that's a new one.

You know reef tanks really aren't this hard...

I don't believe you've read my post carefully. That is not what I said at all.

 

[RichardS]

I stand corrected..that is not what you said. Sorry.

 

[inwall75]

No worries...not a problem.

 

[RichardS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6620702#post6620702 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by inwall75
No worries...not a problem.

Ok, good. I was a bit glazed over after reading through this post in two other forums before reading this thread. Perhaps I should become a politician...take half of a sentence and ignore the rest.

 

[RichardS]

Randy (or anyone),

With all of these type of threads revolving around p, I am wondering why there is never any mention of polyphosphate accumulating bacteria?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My questions for Randy would be: as far as the die off of organisms, won't corralin algae regrow over time? Wouldn't putting in a few pieces of fresh live rubble re-seed the system with additional life forms? Will this method offer me a chance to "try again" with the battle against "low nutrient" algae?

Yes. But in my opinion, that emphasizes that this is a last ditch effort. I'm not convinced that one cannot often (maybe always)accomplish the same goals with other means of phosphate export (like GFO) that are no so disruptive to the aquarium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

With all of these type of threads revolving around p, I am wondering why there is never any mention of polyphosphate accumulating bacteria?

I'm not sure what's to say about them. I don't know that they've been shown to thrive in reef aquaria, and if they do, what does one do with that information?

 

[inwall75]

PAB's (or PAO's) tend to live in the anaerobic area of sandbeds and LR. In fact, they liberate phosphorus from the CaCO3 and are partially responsible for the LR spitting out P. There's nothing we can do about them beyond avoiding P imports as much as possible and exporting as much P as possible.

 

[finneganswake]

I keep seeing "I swear nothing but the algae died off during cooking. I have pods galore," in these threads. I've got a question about this--what are these pods eating for the 3+ months they are in the trashcan? By definition, you are doing everything possible to remove detritus from the rocks--how are the detrivores going to survive this? The other thing pods tend to eat is algae--again, you're eliminating this food source.

It seems to me that you're focusing solely on the bacteria that survives. Why not just purchase dead rock? It's much more affordable and the bacteria you mention will eventually colonize the rock. It makes absolutely no sense to me that someone would spend HUNDREDS of dollars on live rock and then purposely kill off a large amount of the life you're paying for.

 

[finneganswake]

I've got a feeling that if I go home and test the poo that my fish "sheds," I'll find a large amount of phosphate but still have undetectable levels of phosphate in my water column. Given the unhealthy obsession with phosphate from many people on RC, it stands to reason that I should now "cook my fish," no? Yum

 

[MiddletonMark]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6623530#post6623530 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by finneganswake
I keep seeing "I swear nothing but the algae died off during cooking. I have pods galore," in these threads. I've got a question about this--what are these pods eating for the 3+ months they are in the trashcan?

First off, where do you get this 3+ months? That seems suprisingly long ... where is this advice coming from? Or, is it just a straw man, a little over-exaggerated to make the point about how `those people have it wrong'?


Most people cure their rock for a month or more ... without feeding the tank.
By the end, shouldn't all the pods have also starved after this, by your suggestion here?

I mean, after being scrubbed, powerwashed, then exposed to air ... then boxed dry, shipped across freezing/burning tarmacs, set in a warehouse for a day or two ... the pods have not the slightest problem with this, but will up + die if kept in with `cooking rock'?

No offense intended, but give me a break.

If pods + other life couldn't survive cooking, I doubt they'd survive the process which brings Pacific LR to our tank. Just my opinion - but I don't see powerwashing as being `pod friendly'.

If it was only about the life on the rock, I don't see why anyone would ever buy Pacific rock. Yet, here we have people arguing how cooking will kill creatures that live through powerwashing, exposure, weeks without food, ammonia levels, shipping ... but not in clean water, without food input?

That defies logic, as far as I see it. Those same pods would have starved after the powerwashing ...

 

[finneganswake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6623719#post6623719 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark
First off, where do you get this 3+ months? That seems suprisingly long ... where is this advice coming from? Or, is it just a straw man, a little over-exaggerated to make the point about how `those people have it wrong'?

Do you even read the rock cooking threads? You cook until the rock stops shedding--many people say this takes them months. That's one of the selling points--just look at how long it took for all of it to get out.

 

[Hobster]

My difficulties of the whole "cooking" procedure is what to do with the corals in the tank?. I asked this in the "orginal" thread.
I have many sps corals firmly attached to my live rock. If I were to remove the rock for "cooking" I would need to chisel off large prtions of coral. In the process of course large pieces will break off.
Now that I have hacked off the corals and put the rock in other containers, I am supposed to (per directions) just put the corals back in the main tank with no live rock filtration?? The fish will not be stresed out either?

After seeing these guys on Discovery HD last night, I'd rather get a few of these.

http://www.darwinfoundation.org/galapagos/marineiguana.html

 

[Ereefic]

What creatures are being killed off from cooking the rock, and what role would they play in my tank?

 

[Sindjin]

Rock Cooking Generally takes 6 weeks....unless your rock is still shedding.

In tank curing takes longer. For example... my rock is still shedding a bit and its going on 4 months.
But then again... I am sort of FORCING the crud out by blowing off/out the rock, too.

 

[Ereefic]

If you cook your rock and still have poor flow (allowing crap to settle on/into the rocks), your going to have problems much sooner than having good flow so crap doesn't settle. Maybe this is the real issue?