Rotifer enrichment?

[Ooulophilia]

Hey, I have been using the the Instant Algae Nanno for feeding my rotifers with great sucess, but have been toying with enriching them after straining them. I have both DTs and Phyto Feast avalible to me, and have been experimenting with both for a while for my gut loading of the rotifers for full nutritonal needs (with selcon). I have found that the fry (maroon clowns) fed with the rotifers enriched with DT's fare better than the ones with Phyto Feast. I was talking to a friend and he pointed me to this article:
http://www.dtplankton.com/mgw2/main.html
Sure, it is written by DT's but a lot made sense, I always found the sickly sweet smell of Phyto Feast offputting. The Instant Algae Nanno does not have the same sweet smell, and I am sure that most containers of Phyo Feast are used faster then a 32 oz container of concentrated Nanno. Anyways, the results with my fry also seem to confirm it, does anyone else have any experiences?

 

[Thales]

Hey,

You posted almost the exact same post a while ago - what gives?

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8516060#post8516060

11/9/2006

For my reef tank, I used DTs for a long time, then switched to phyto feast after hearing good things, and from intial inspection with a microscope, phyto feast looks much more concentrated. I was also using both to enrich rotifers to feed to fry.
After switching to phyto feast for rotifer enrichment my fry survival rate plummeted. It took me a while to isolate this as the reason, but then my friend (also a breeder) emailed me this:
http://www.dtplankton.com/mgw2/main.html
I had found it strange that phyto feast has such a sweet smell, and this explained it. Anyway, I went back to using DTs for final rotifer enrichment, and my fry survival rate immediatly went back up.
From this experience, I am sticking with DTs.

 

[mwp]

FWIW, just raise your own phytoplankton and you'll know exactly what's being fed to the rotifers and larvae. I've used Reed's Live as a backup and haven't had any real problems. Of course, there's also phytoplex as another option

Matt

 

[mwp]

BTW, FWIW, you're probalby not getting any responses on this one 'cause the Reed's have helped out MANY of the breeders on this forum with their various products and expertise. Not knockin' DT's, just haven't used his products and haven't had an interest in them.

I think most of the clownfish folks now are using Oto (sold by Reed) and if they're not growing their own phyto, they're using Nanno paste (also from Reed). It seems to work fine for the breeders I know. When it gets past clownfish, I think having live phyto (T-Iso, Nanno, Tetraselmis, that's the base) almost becomes necessity so you know what you're doing

FWIW,

Matt

 

[mwp]

Sorry to keep rambling, but I had another thought I wanted to share. First, I've had all sorts of ups and downs with the percs, more likely due to proper rotifer concentrations and water quality than what I'm feeding the rots.

Also, DT's and Phytofeast Live are two products not really marketed as enrichments (or feeds) anyways, but rather phytoplankton additives for reef tanks, right? Not saying that they can't be used, but if you have the Nanno paste and rotifers, you have all you need to raise thousands of clownfish. Not naming names, just saying I know it's done by folks on a routine basis.

As far as enricment (between rotifer harvest and rotifer feeding), Selcon is hands down a better option than any phytoplankton - I recall seeing data done on various enrichments of phyto vs. selcon-type products...selcon brings up the hufas 10X the level of any phyto. So rear your rotifers on whatever you like, and enrich with selcon. That seems to be a very standard protocol for marine fish larval culture.

Until you've smelled LIVE phyto cultures, you really haven't smelled anything all that stinky. T-Iso is my least favorite I can understand why Reed would put an "odor killing" agent in their products!

FWIW,

Matt

 

[GreshamH]

Can clownfish larvea process 10x's the HUFAs of phytos? I know the cod industry is extremelly concerned with getting the proper ratio, rather then raising HUFAs to ultra high levels. All their enrichment is done via changing the feed prior to use. I may be compairing apples to oranges though as I'm not up on clownfish nutritional needs as of yet

 

[ediaz]

Unless you do this with several batches of clowns from different pairs and using both alternatives as avariable you can't not say "i found", "I beleive" would be more appropiate.

Use the ptyho for the larval tank and an enrichment product to load the rotifers. Clownfish do not need enrichment anyway.

Theres people still growing phyto?

Ed

 

[mwp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8964308#post8964308 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ediaz

Theres people still growing phyto?

Ed [/B]

T-Iso, Nannochloropsis, Tetraselmis and got my Nannochloris up and running again Can't do greenwater techniques without live phyto, right? I think LIVE, FRESH phyto is going to be key to the Mandarins, and it probably was a big reason the Greenbanded Gobies made it (thanks to your adivce to up the dosing Ed!)!

Gresh, I think the selcon thing is that the levels drop fast, so over a feeding period the levels may start really high but drop as time goes (4 hours to process everything in a rotifer's gut, right?). Of course, that assumes there's no phyto in the larval rearing tank either, right?

Matt

 

[ediaz]

I see you don't have PS3... who has time for phyto

Try a goby run with 3600;-)

Ed

 

[mwp]

PS3? 3600? I must live in a different part of the country...we don't have those funny numbers here!

I'm actually now recycling some my old aquarium water into phytoplankton culture water (thanks to all the bleaching discussions we've had on earlier threads). Turns out it works like a charm...a real greener way to approach inland culturing (and water use)

Matt

 

[Kathy55g]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8964535#post8964535 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mwp
PS3? 3600? I must live in a different part of the country...we don't have those funny numbers here!

I'm actually now recycling some my old aquarium water into phytoplankton culture water (thanks to all the bleaching discussions we've had on earlier threads). Turns out it works like a charm...a real greener way to approach inland culturing (and water use)

Matt

Finally, someone is listening!

PS3 = PlayStation III
3600 refers to units of cells, I think gazillion, in one of reeds phytoplankton rotifer diets. Large bag of phyto goodness.

My nanno has no scent. My tetraselmus, when I had some growing, smelled like dirt.

Cheers,
K

 

[ediaz]

Matt should move to St. Louis...

 

[Fishboy42]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8964973#post8964973 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kathy55g
Large bag of phyto goodness.
Cheers,
K

And there it is; I tell you that guy Kathy knows a thing or two...

DT's also works for feeding/growing/enriching rots and for clouding the clown larval tanks. I used it a year+ ago (many pairs/species, many different batches) when I needed it or ran out of "phyto goodness," although as Ed also points out, clowns don't really *need* any special enrichment.

I don't culture any live algae anymore but am considering it again to try other species; as mwp says, paste and rotifers = thousands of clowns, 'tis true (although we know it's not *all* you need )

-Matt

 

[Ooulophilia]

Sorry, I was not trying to badmouth anyone, last time I posted it was in response to which one do you prefer, DTs or Phyto, and I was just presenting my reasoning. For some reason the experience was still in the back of my mind so I posted here to see if anyone had the same experience. I am by no means presenting empirical data, just sharing an experience (which for all I know, could be error on my part). I use the full line of all other Reeds stuff and think it is great, I would be screwed without the Instant Algae. I figured I was just covering my bases with a last minute enrichment, but will now stick with the nano concentrate for feeding and selcon for enrichment (don't really have the room/time for a phyto culture). Thanks for the replies, one less step makes my life that much easier. If anyone feels that this thread is uncalled for, please delete it.