Royal gramma bad idea

[zooman72]

I have one w my wrasses, it gets along fine! Seriously, I never owned one before... I have been missing out!!!



You just convinced me to add a couple more to my tank to go w the one I have... Should I add, 1 or 2?? Will the established one have a problem w this?

I would add two so that there is not just one new fish to be "targeted" by the current residents. I also like to add them at the same size or larger for obvious reasons. Keep in mind there are some "tricks" that can also sometimes be employed to aid in new fish introduction, so maybe you can read up on those as well (i.e. feed first, introduce at night, use a specimen container for visual intro first, etc.).

Royal grammas tend to do quite well in trios as long as they have enough "space"...

 

[zooman72]

I've got one in my 260 FOWLR with a 6" harlequin tusk, red coris, juvi dragon, and several large angels and tangs. He holds his own and is savvy enough to stick close to his bolt hole, but still spends plenty of time in the water column. Great fish, and my daughter's favorite. I've been contemplating adding a blackcap basslet as well or a purple pseudochromis, but am concerned about conspecific aggression with the blackcap, or the purple pseudo acting like a pseudo (though the are suppose to be mellow as pseudos go). I think my tank is big enough, but my gramma's bolt holl is right in the center of the tank so I worry that there won't be enough free territory on either side for the newcomer.

Blackcaps will definitely "bully" royals in smaller tanks, but your tank is quite large, so that may not be an issue. I have found that even in large tanks like yours that royals tend to stick to cover, but in smaller tanks they become quite bold if there are no other boisterous fish in with them. They can also have bolt holes surprisingly close to others (within 6-12") - I would be more worried about any larger fish being a problem.

 

[zooman72]

Purple pseudo was one of the most aggressive fish I ever owned.

I have one in a 14g Biocube with a juvenile Allardi clown (clown was in first), and there is zero aggression. Behavior often varies with circumstances - order of introduction, territoriality, food availability, tank layout (i.e. shelter and footprint), etc.

Purple pseudo's are one of the least aggressive pseudo's (elongates are my favorite and very "shy"), but I always remind others to consider potential when determining compatibility, and then consider the individual circumstances of that particular aquarium.

 

[albano]

You just convinced me to add a couple more to my tank to go w the one I have... Should I add, 1 or 2?? Will the established one have a problem w this?

It could be a problem adding 2 new Grammas to your established one...but I have done it before... Might have to catch and remove him temporarily.

 

[aquaph8]

I have one in a 14g Biocube with a juvenile Allardi clown (clown was in first), and there is zero aggression. Behavior often varies with circumstances - order of introduction, territoriality, food availability, tank layout (i.e. shelter and footprint), etc.

Purple pseudo's are one of the least aggressive pseudo's (elongates are my favorite and very "shy"), but I always remind others to consider potential when determining compatibility, and then consider the individual circumstances of that particular aquarium.

Try adding something new, that's where there's problems. Mine would attack tangs newly added to the tank but wouldn't bother anyone that was there before him.

 

[Bernie21]

I would add two so that there is not just one new fish to be "targeted" by the current residents. I also like to add them at the same size or larger for obvious reasons. Keep in mind there are some "tricks" that can also sometimes be employed to aid in new fish introduction, so maybe you can read up on those as well (i.e. feed first, introduce at night, use a specimen container for visual intro first, etc.).

Royal grammas tend to do quite well in trios as long as they have enough "space"...

I've had fish intro issues & know a few tricks. however, this is my first experience w Royal Grammas. I've only had my current one for about a month so input is always welcomed. I ordered 2 more, so I should have them in a few days. I'll post some pictures as I go along!

 

[Betta132]

The key to royal grammas is to give them a choice of caves and a decent little bit of space around each cave that they can claim as their own thing.

 

[OrionN]

I also like to keep them in group. I have 6 in my 320 right now. Very colorful and peaceful. They retain their brilliant color and will spawn in your tank if you keep them in good condition, otherwise, they have color fade.
They are dimorphic with the male, the largest, will have longer pelvic fins and the purple extended farther down the body. I would say female and juveniles have purple extended just pass midway, while the male have purple almost to 2/3 of body length. Female and juveniles pelvic fins just barely reach anal fin while male pelvic fins reach 2-3 mm past the origin of the anal fin.
Male Royal Gramma will fight each other to the death like fresh water Betta. In one of my old tank (450 gal) the male of my harem got old and weak, one of the female turn into male and promptly killed him. The younger male attack. They lock jawed and the older male lip was ripped. He keep on attack until the older was running and tattered, destroyed one of his eyes and I never seen him again. I guess he died and consumed by the CUC. There was not much I can do to remove him in a 450 g full of corals and rock. That is about the only aggression I ever seen regarding Royal Gramma. They like to show their jaws a lot to fish that go into their territory. However, this is just all bark and no bite. I have never see them dash at or take a bite at another fish.

 

[lutz123]

Good to know they get along so well - I have one in quarantine. Thanks for the info.

 

[Triggerfish]

jsut added a small gramma in with 4 wrasses. doesnt seem to hinder the gramma from going about its normal routine.

 

[Bernie21]

I also like to keep them in group. I have 6 in my 320 right now. Very colorful and peaceful. They retain their brilliant color and will spawn in your tank if you keep them in good condition, otherwise, they have color fade.
They are dimorphic with the male, the largest, will have longer pelvic fins and the purple extended farther down the body. I would say female and juveniles have purple extended just pass midway, while the male have purple almost to 2/3 of body length. Female and juveniles pelvic fins just barely reach anal fin while male pelvic fins reach 2-3 mm past the origin of the anal fin.
Male Royal Gramma will fight each other to the death like fresh water Betta. In one of my old tank (450 gal) the male of my harem got old and weak, one of the female turn into male and promptly killed him. The younger male attack. They lock jawed and the older male lip was ripped. He keep on attack until the older was running and tattered, destroyed one of his eyes and I never seen him again. I guess he died and consumed by the CUC. There was not much I can do to remove him in a 450 g full of corals and rock. That is about the only aggression I ever seen regarding Royal Gramma. They like to show their jaws a lot to fish that go into their territory. However, this is just all bark and no bite. I have never see them dash at or take a bite at another fish.

Woah... thats alot of info!! Thanks, Awesome!!!

 

[Deinonych]

I also like to keep them in group. I have 6 in my 320 right now. Very colorful and peaceful. They retain their brilliant color and will spawn in your tank if you keep them in good condition, otherwise, they have color fade.
They are dimorphic with the male, the largest, will have longer pelvic fins and the purple extended farther down the body. I would say female and juveniles have purple extended just pass midway, while the male have purple almost to 2/3 of body length. Female and juveniles pelvic fins just barely reach anal fin while male pelvic fins reach 2-3 mm past the origin of the anal fin.
Male Royal Gramma will fight each other to the death like fresh water Betta. In one of my old tank (450 gal) the male of my harem got old and weak, one of the female turn into male and promptly killed him. The younger male attack. They lock jawed and the older male lip was ripped. He keep on attack until the older was running and tattered, destroyed one of his eyes and I never seen him again. I guess he died and consumed by the CUC. There was not much I can do to remove him in a 450 g full of corals and rock. That is about the only aggression I ever seen regarding Royal Gramma. They like to show their jaws a lot to fish that go into their territory. However, this is just all bark and no bite. I have never see them dash at or take a bite at another fish.

Fantastic info, thank you! Based on your description, I believe my gramma is a male, as his pelvic fins extend well past the anal fin. I didn't realize that grammas are protogynous hermaphrodites, either. From your experience, would it be safe to introduce a female or juvenile with an established male? Even if they didn't pair up (which would be way cool), at the very least I'd like them to coexist. My tank is 48x24x21 with plenty of rockwork.

 

[OrionN]

IME female can change in to male very quickly in the absent of supression by the male, even small RG can cnage to male in as little time as a week or two. They will not look like a male until the phycical change take place but they will act like a male.
Best bet, if you already have one in yourtank, is to have LFS order seveal and put them together they buy all but the largest one.
If you don't have one, then have the LFS put them together in a tank and take all of them.
Many LFS put them separtely, after a few day these are all males and should not put back together.

Chris
Your tank is almost 120 g tank. I would put at least 2+ Juveniles in your tank to make 3+. The male live in a cave/crevice and see him try to entice the females to go into his den is very interesting to say the least. They dont pair but live in a harem with the male and his females.

 

[OrionN]

I take the bit about length of the pelvic fins back. The observation was quite a few years ago. Male have longer pelvic fins. Both male and female pelvic fins reach past the start of the anal fins. I have to reconfirm this but i think male fins go past mid anal fin while female pelvic fins does not. I will look again this evening and correct this observation

 

[OrionN]

I went back and do close observation of my harem last evening. My initial recall was right. Female purple color come to 1/2 from tip of nose to tip of tail and male just short of 2/3. The pelvic fins length of female barely reach the begin of anal fin. In male, the pelvic fins overlap the anal fin by a few millimeters. The length increase due to a short streamer growth at the tip of the pelvic fins.
Keep in mind that it will take a while for the newly change sex male to look like a male. He will look like a female but act like a male initially. How long his physical change take place? I don't know but will be at least 2 weeks.

Best of luck to all who attempt to keep a harem. You will not regret this decision.

 

[el aguila]

Well I'm one of the ones that did not have good luck adding 6 to my 190 which is aquascraped to dissolve fish tensions. I asked a FL Keys shipper to send me their smallest ones.

They all hung out together for a little while then split up in to 2-3 groups and then it was on. Fought till their was only one left.

I wonder if you would be better off to get one larger and all the rest small ones?

 

[OrionN]

Did they get sick and died or died due to fighting? There is Brazilian Royal Gramma that is much more aggressive but look very similar to RG. I have no experience with this species but several source recommend that only one Brazilian RG per tank

 

[OrionN]

Right now I have 6 in my 320. 1 male and 5 females. No problem. Fish list in my sig

 

[Deinonych]

Chris
Your tank is almost 120 g tank. I would put at least 2+ Juveniles in your tank to make 3+. The male live in a cave/crevice and see him try to entice the females to go into his den is very interesting to say the least. They dont pair but live in a harem with the male and his females.

Thanks!

 

[el aguila]

Did they get sick and died or died due to fighting? There is Brazilian Royal Gramma that is much more aggressive but look very similar to RG. I have no experience with this species but several source recommend that only one Brazilian RG per tank

They were carribean RGs and they died due to fighting. At the time I had about 6 Kupang damsels. While they are considered one of the least aggressive damsels, they do live in the same type areas of the tank. Not sure if their aggression spurred aggression betwee the RG or what.