Rubber Sanitary T's for BA/Herb overflow?

[MidwesternTexan]

Long story short...
building an overflow for my 180. Internal C2C, 2 large holes in top corner of tank.
To reduce stress on the bulkheads in the glass, I am thinking of using 2 x 1.5inch Sanitary T's- Fernco rubber fittings.

I do also plan to support the tubes some to the stand before they go thru the floor.

If it's been done before, or mentioned before then sorry, I didn't see that.

Good idea? TIA

 

[uncleof6]

How do you plan to seal it up? The tiniest pin air leak will make all your efforts go down the drain in the form of bubbles and a non-functional drain system. Reduce the stress on the bulkheads by properly (elusive perhaps) supporting the plumbing.

 

[MidwesternTexan]

The fernco fittings- if you're familiar with them, are very sturdy rubber fittings.
Each opening has a hose clamp on it.
The overflow drains are extremely LOW pressure, be it negative or positive.
I also planned on supporting the drains to the stand as well, and using hose from there- thru the floor to my basement sump.

 

[uncleof6]

I am familiar with them.

Sounds to me like you have already made up your mind to use them, so not much of what I say will carry much weight. The pressure is ambiguous, on one one hand you have a positive "pressure" which will be seen creating friction loss, and there is also a negative pressure (vaccum) that will suck air past rubber seals, (same as with a cavitating pump,) considering the length of a basement drop.

Bottom line is, if your system does suck air, which is extremely difficult to track down/water tight does not mean air tight, (and with rubber fittings you set the conditions much closer to probable,) the first step in fixing it will be to replace the rubber fittings. Only makes sense, to avoid the possibility altogether.

Rubber Sanitary T's for BA/Herb overflow?

In your original post, you state 2 holes in the top corner. The BA system requires 3 holes and 3 standpipes; the herbie uses 2. There is no relationship between the two systems, they do not operate the same, and it is not safe to attempt to make them operate the same.

 

[MidwesternTexan]

I called the Fernco company, was put to a voicemail of a technician named Tony.
I left a short/detailed message of how I inteded to use their product, and wanted advice on leaching, etc.

I missed his call, but listened to his voicemail.
He clearly stated- 'Do not use this product for your intended application'

There you have it!

** Which reminds me, I never contacted the company that makes the 1.5inch, corrugated drain hose I'm using for the overflows return to my sump- also a Rubbermaid.
The hose is mainly intended for the outflow of a basements sump pump.
My coral are have been kicking A$$ and taking names- not too woried about that pipe.

I use a 'spa-flex' hose for my Return to the DT- under pressure it is.
It is inteded for Hot tubs- you don't drink that either, well I hope not.

Thanks for your other concerns Uof6

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

you should be using spa flex for you drain and return lines if you dont want to go through the effort of plumbing hard pipe...reason being is there is less friction in the spaflex (tigerflex, flexpvc, what ever you want to call it) then there is in corrugated drain lines...

chances are the tech is just covering the company's butt...i am sure the sanitary tee would work fine in the aquatic environment...but since it is not the intended use they wont recommend you use it...but that still leaves you with uncles concerns for air tightness...kinda like every single tube of silicone you read will say not intended for use below water line (hence not safe for aquarium uses)

 

[Gorgok]

Might also have just been saying that because of the clamps. I think they may be made of 301 stainless, not really one designed for marine environments.

 

[MidwesternTexan]

you should be using spa flex for you drain and return lines if you dont want to go through the effort of plumbing hard pipe...reason being is there is less friction in the spaflex (tigerflex, flexpvc, what ever you want to call it) then there is in corrugated drain lines...

chances are the tech is just covering the company's butt...i am sure the sanitary tee would work fine in the aquatic environment...but since it is not the intended use they wont recommend you use it...but that still leaves you with uncles concerns for air tightness...kinda like every single tube of silicone you read will say not intended for use below water line (hence not safe for aquarium uses)

Thanks for the info and concerns. I'm currently using one 1&1/2 in. corrugated plastic tube w/o any problems.
I do plan on using 2 x 1&1/2 in. SpaFlex type instead on my 180's return though.

Might also have just been saying that because of the clamps. I think they may be made of 301 stainless, not really one designed for marine environments.

Cloud be, Although I had stated im my message my main concern was the leaching bad stuff. I think I'll call them back today and actually talk to the tech about it.

Todd

 

[MidwesternTexan]

Well,

I talked to 'Tony', and I was like, "Hey Ton-E, whats up with those fernco fittings, eh?
He said, 'Fer get a bout it'

No, he didn't say that.
What he said was It should work fine.
It is composed of PVC,
With DINP - the plasticiser
and Carbon Black- to make it - well- black.

I looked up Carbon Black, and it shouldn't be a problem.
Then I looked up DINP, and it says it's used in food grade and medical rubber hoses.

Here's a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diisononyl_phthalate

I think I'll soap'em in some SW for awhile, and may use them.

I"ll be doing a leak test- if they leak as Uof6 thinks it might, then I'll use the more rigid PVC- schedule 40

Thanks everyone

 

[uncleof6]

Well,

I talked to 'Tony', and I was like, "Hey Ton-E, whats up with those fernco fittings, eh?
He said, 'Fer get a bout it'

No, he didn't say that.
What he said was It should work fine.
It is composed of PVC,
With DINP - the plasticiser
and Carbon Black- to make it - well- black.

I looked up Carbon Black, and it shouldn't be a problem.
Then I looked up DINP, and it says it's used in food grade and medical rubber hoses.

Here's a link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diisononyl_phthalate

I think I'll soap'em in some SW for awhile, and may use them.

I"ll be doing a leak test- if they leak as Uof6 thinks it might, then I'll use the more rigid PVC- schedule 40

Thanks everyone

Did not say or suggest they will or may leak! What I said is that water tight and air tight are not the same thing. A fitting may not leak, but it will suck in air.

 

[MidwesternTexan]

Did not say or suggest they will or may leak! What I said is that water tight and air tight are not the same thing. A fitting may not leak, but it will suck in air.

Yes, I got it Uof6,

I'm not actually using a 'siphon-style' overflow, like I am now on my 125g.
This is for a Herbie style drain, from a C2C overflow.
The one line you try and get to run on siphon, for flow and noise reduction only. Even if it sucked a little air, it would NOT 'break' any kind of siphon that would stop flow- like it would on the style I'm currently using.

And If it's a problem, leaks, etc.- I'll hard plumb that part with the hard PVC and pipe dope.

I do appreciate your concerns and feedback, as I try and 'pre-troubleshoot' this stuff too.

Todd

 

[uncleof6]

Ummmm, hate to say this, but Herbie is a siphon. A siphon is a siphon; u-tube, herbie, BA—all siphons work on the same principles. Air in the siphon line will prevent the siphon from forming, and the drain system will not function as intended...

 

[MidwesternTexan]

Ummmm, hate to say this, but Herbie is a siphon. A siphon is a siphon; u-tube, herbie, BA—all siphons work on the same principles. Air in the siphon line will prevent the siphon from forming, and the drain system will not function as intended...

Yes, a siphion is a siphon- but if you get enolugh air in one that takes the water above the DT level- it stops- RP keeps going- overflow DT, etc. etc.

Surely, you're NOT saying that a siphon that has to pull the water above the DT level and over the DT edge- like I'm currently using is the same as one that flows with gravity, and ends up pulling all the air out and can function as a true siphon?
The one I will use will have a valve on the primary- or siphon line, so that it can stay siphon, and the left over flow will go down the 2nd, or emergency channel. BA- adds a third 'just in case' channel.
This 2nd channel, will have a cap and an air line with the end near the water level in the overflow- so that if needed in higher water, it will go underater creating a 2nd siphon, etc.

Do we need to go into this more?

Have you seen my current 125 mixed reef?


Sorry for the blurry pic.

I understand these overflows, and their differences all too well.

 

[38bill]

Been using them for years without a problem. I currently have one between my large stock tank sump and the high pressure return pump to stop the sound transmission through the ridged PVC pipes. Never leaked, sucked air or rusted. If it sucked any air I would see it immediately in the display tank. Makes it really easy to pull the pump for maintenance too. They can handle the suction but they are not designed for higher pressure applications.

 

[uncleof6]

I understand these overflows, and their differences all too well.

Well then you absolutely must know more about all these overflow systems than I, and it is not possible that I can help you in any way. Actually, we are discussing drain systems not overflows, but that is just a small matter right? Happy Reefing.

 

[MidwesternTexan]

Been using them for years without a problem. I currently have one between my large stock tank sump and the high pressure return pump to stop the sound transmission through the ridged PVC pipes. Never leaked, sucked air or rusted. If it sucked any air I would see it immediately in the display tank. Makes it really easy to pull the pump for maintenance too. They can handle the suction but they are not designed for higher pressure applications.

38bill, THANK YOU! I was looking for someone who has used them, and their expereinces with them, thanks.

Well then you absolutely must know more about all these overflow systems than I, and it is not possible that I can help you in any way. Actually, we are discussing drain systems not overflows, but that is just a small matter right? Happy Reefing.[/QUOTE

Don't know about absolutely. You have helped.
Thanks

 

[MidwesternTexan]

Those Renco fittings, on my 2 drians on that 180 I was building with a true Coast to Coast overflow?

Well, it's been up and running for 2 months tomorrow.
The drains from the overflow are working beautifully!
I use one with a sliding style gate valve to keep one on full siphon, and the other has it's 90 elbow also under the water level in the C2C overflow. The second one is 1&1/2" all the way and no gate style valve. It has a small airline that ends above the water level in the overflow.
If the overfow water level rises too high for some reason- the end of the air vent goes under water and turns it into a full siphon- quickly draining the C2C overflow.

Here's a pic of my 180 from a few days ago: