Sad story...

[macperry]

I had posted this on the Beginner forum, and the Nano forum, so people could learn from my mistakes. I decided to post it again here primarily to get an answer about the BTA "stinging the tank". I had read that a stressed anem could show that type of behavior. Does anyone have any info about this?

 

[macperry]

Oops...forgot to copy the original post.
Well everyone...here is what not to do. I was having a serious low pH problem, so I started dripping Kalkwasser every day for the last week. Then I read this nifty little article about making the Kalkwasser even more potent by mixing it with white vinegar (about 25ml) before adding the RODI water. The pH would go from 7.8 in the morning to 8.4 by the end of the Kalk drip a couple of hours later. I get up this morning and decide to do my usual Sunday 25% water change. Out goes the old water...which was maxed out on Calc and Alk due to all the Kalkwasser....and in goes the new LFS premixed, tested, used for the last year water. Now the "fun" begins. A large snowstorm developes, my BTA stings everything in sight, my 2 Ocellaris hide under a rock, my 3 Chromis start gasping on the bottom of the sand and are dead wihin 2 minutes, my Pseudochromis hides in his cave, my sand sifting Goby hides in her cave, and my Pacific Cleaner Shrimp is just standing there staring at me. It is 3 hours later now, and everyone has come out of hiding (except the Chromis....but we won't talk about that now). I tested all my water params, and everything is "good"...Calc-400 Alk-9.8dKh Salinity-1.023 Temp-80F and pH-8.0 (and of course slowly drifting down again).

Now the big question: Did the anemone truly freak out due to the rapid change in water chemistry and "sting the tank".....thereby killing the Chromis, or was it the chemistry that killed the Chromis?

Now the lessons: Less is more...don't "chase" water parameters, use Kalkwasser with caution, and make sure the water you are replacing "matches" the water you removed.

OK everyone......Flame Away.

Hobby Experience: 30 yrs FW/8 mos SW
Current Tanks: 12g Nano
Interests: Mustangs,airplanes, the ocean, aquariums

 

[MarinaP]

You messed up the chemistry, BTA has nothing to do with the problem. The animal did not "sting" anything.

What do you use to measure pH?

I would perform another water change and hope for the better.

 

[macperry]

MarinaP: I use a Pinpoint meter to measure pH. It was recently checked for calibration, and it was right on the money. So that story about a stressed anem has no basis in fact?

 

[MarinaP]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9037030#post9037030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by macperry
So that story about a stressed anem has no basis in fact?

Not IMHO. What usually happens when an anemone dies, is decomposition of its' tissue. That leads to ammonia spike and subsequent nitrites. Both are poisonous to fish and corals.

Stressed anemones can start walking and stinging everything on its' path. Stressed anemone that stays put should not present any danger to the tank.

 

[macperry]

The anem stayed put, and the clowns are back to their normal hosting behavior. So I guess it was the chemistry that got the 3 Chromis. I definitely learned my lesson.

 

[Random Aquarist]

How can you have an anemone, a pair of clowns, 3 chromis, a pseudochromis, and a sand sifting goby in a 12g?

 

[GSMguy]

macperry i call you out why do you never answer this question why do you have so many fish we want to know

 

[macperry]

To All: I admit it...I made the most common newbie mistake....I overstocked my tank. I will be starting a larger tank ASAP and plan to transfer the clowns and their BTA to the new tank.

 

[Scythanith]

well here is mine recent problem which is somewhat similar. I have an 85 gallon reef tank and about 2 months ago changed the sump from a 25 galon tall glass aquarium to a 40 galon acrylic.

I didn't predict the new evap rate and had some air injecting into the tank for what i figured was a couple hours and when I got home 6 of my 7 chromis were gasping on the bottom of the tank and ultimately ended up dying within 1 hour. Everything else survived. So what caused my fish to die.....

was it the air bubbles, was it some mysterious compund in the new sump, or was it something on a rag I used to wipe down the sump.

I don't know..... but I had people suggest that chromis were like the canary in the coal mine so to speak and they usually can die first. The micro bubbles could have rendered the chromis' gills ineffective hence the gasping on the bottom of the tank.

But the water stayed cloudy (like bad ammonia) for a couple days after (no microbubbles). I have no idea what caused it, but I added Boyd's CHemi pure and within a couple days it was cleares up and hasn't happened since. Did the Boyd's chemi-pure draw out some mystery chemical..... I dont know, but it deffinitly didn't cause more harm.

hope something here can ease your concerns.

 

[MarinaP]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9038208#post9038208 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Scythanith

was it the air bubbles

Could be that sudden extra O2 caused pH spike.

 

[macperry]

All I know is it was not a fun day in fish land...and I will not be messing with any more "supplements" other than water changes ever again.

 

[raoul]

Sorry to hear about your "fun day" I think you'll like a bigger tank when you're done. It's usually easier to have more stable water parameters with larger volumes of water.

So, when are you starting your new tank?

 

[macperry]

raoul: Because of my bizzare scedule, it is going to be a challenge getting a new tank up and running. My girlfriend has already been teasing me about the time I spend on this nano, so a new tank might strain relationship-land right about now. I'll keep you posted as I get underway.

 

[raoul]

Tell her she gets to help pick out the pretty stuff That's how my husband got me hooked

In the begining he would tell me what our tank could take and then basically ask if I wanted this, this, or this...he wanted me to be involved.

Now I have a pretty good idea what we can take care of. I'm better with the animals than I am techie stuff, but I'm getting better. After three years I finally did my first water test He did all the others, but I'm getting there. The only thing I don't know if I'll be able to do is fill our top-off jugs up in the basement and then haul them upstairs! I'm not that big and those things get heavy!

Now I'm just as big a junkie as he is! Maybe more so.

 

[reefman13]

Thats a really sad story, good thing something was learned. Just remember next time you start a tank remember not to overstock the tank.

 

[phender]

I know that some host anemones can release a slime that is toxic when they are greatly disturbed. I've never heard of a BTA doing it though. I don't know if they are releasing nematocysts or what but, in those cases the clownfish are not affected at all and the other fish don't recover.
Two things stand out to me. 1) You had a snowstorm, so something happened with your water chemistry to cause a precipitate. 2) Your clowns were bothered just as much as your other fish, which tells me it wasn't an anemone problem.

 

[macperry]

phender: after giving it some thought, the only thing I can up with is that I got caught up in a vicious cycle of dosing Kalkwasser to get the pH up, and neglected my water changes. When I siphoned off about 25% of the old water, and started adding the new water, the precipitation of calcium was actually pretty light, pretty much a white haze and a dusty looking white coating on the powerheads. The pH actually did not fluctuate that much, 8.4 down to 8.2...but I could tell right away something was going wrong. The anem and all my corals looked perfectly fine, but the fish were showing signs of distress. The Ocellaris hid in a corner on the bottom of the tank, but did not seem to be gasping like the Chromis were. The Pseudochromis and Goby didn't look bothered at all. In the end the Chromis were dead within 5 minutes....i netted them out...and did another 50% water change. A couple of hours later everyone was back to normal. Lesson learned: I will leave the pH alone from now on...it drifts from 7.7 in the morning to a high of 7.9 by mid day. The RODI water tests at 7.0, and the salt water tests at 8.2.....so water changes bring the pH up to about 8.0 until it starts to drift down again. Any ideas that don't involve chemicals or Kalkwasser? Thanks...Perry

 

[macperry]

GSMguy: Let's see some tank pics. Any ideas about the pH problem?

 

[raoul]

Something to think about (since you're thinking of upgrading anyway). I know people whose light cycle on their sumps the opposite of their display tank. From what they've told me this seems to help with the day/night fluctuation of ph. We'll probably be trying this shortly.