Saddleback Butterfly Lympho or Ich?

[Dcash88]

Hello I got a raccoon butterfly about 5 weeks ago, I wasn't sure if it had ich or lympho and some of you on here helped me determine it was lympho since it was only 2 dots and not multiplying. It took three weeks for the dots to go away and they never got to be more than 2 dots. There have been no dots or other symptoms since.

I got a saddleback butterfly 8 days ago, it had 2 dots, one on the tail and one on the pectoral fin. They remained the same until today and now there are 3 dots maybe 4. 2 on the tail right by each other, the 1 on the pectoral fin, and possibly one on the very back of the dorsal fin right above the tail fin (can't tell if its a dot or part of the coloring).

Both fish are acting normal, feeding well twice a day, no flashing, and they are very active. They are the only 2 fish in a 135 gallon with 55 gallon sump. 8.3ph, 1.023sg, 0ppm nitrates, 7dkh, 82 degrees,

So I am wondering what your opinions are, ich or lympho or something else? If its lympho why would it still be getting worse? When the raccoon had it I'm pretty sure it was from the stress of transporting/shipping/acclimation and it never got worse once he was in a stable environment.

 

[Deinonych]

Could be lympho...pics would help though.

 

[Dcash88]

The first pic shows the two dots on the edge of the tail and the possible dot above them. The second pic is a clearer pic showing the two dots on the tail. I hope its lympho but if it is how can I determine what is stressing him or is it possible that it is still stress from being in a new tank (its been in there for 8 days). Hope these help.

 

[cngreg]

Looks and the location to me lead me to say lymphocystis. Also, butterflies are commonly affected, especially after stress of transport. How long have the spots been there? Anything more than 3 days I'd say lympho (crypto will stick on them for 3-7 days but you can only really see it the last few days unless theres mucus buildup like on a puffers body, not a butterflies fin)

 

[Dmorty217]

+1 to lympho, my juv emperor developed it after using cupramine. The lympho went away after about 3 weeks after being out of the cupramine

 

[Dcash88]

Cngreg
The two original spots have been there for 9 days, the one new spot had been there for 2 days.

Dmorty
After removing your emperor from the cupramine did the lympho just get better and better until gone or did it get any new dots after being removed from the cupramine.

I ask because of the new dot, I thought it was lympho too until the development of the new dot yesterday which had made me wonder. As far as I know the stressors that caused the lympho have been removed so I am not clear on why there would be a new dot.

Thanks for the input and replies

 

[SDguy]

Those spots on the tail are lympho. Just an FYI, saddlebacks hate copper, in case you need the info.

 

[Dmorty217]

Dcash after I removed the emperor it actually got worse for a week before it got better. My emperor had lympho on pectoral fin and where the fin touched on the side of the fish the lympho started to form there too. Stress is the cause of it, remove the stress and proper nutrition will turn everything around. I know that angels don't like copper but sometimes you have to do what you have to do

 

[Dcash88]

Dmorty Thanks for getting back and that is very reassuring. I could not figure out why it appears to be getting a little worse even after the stressors have been removed. Hopefully it is just taking a while to get better. I will keep you posted.

 

[Dmorty217]

Please do, I would guess that it was between a month and 6 wks before it had totally cleared up for me

 

[MrTuskfish]

Aren't you using a QT with new fish?

 

[Dcash88]

Depending on the situation sometimes I do qt and sometimes I dont. Generally with delicate fish or fish that have trouble acclimating I do not. IMO a qt is often more of a risk than a benefit. I know many people have success with qting every addition and that is great for them.

With these particular fish I did not qt because IMO being in a larger tank was more of a benefit than the qt and the risk was relatively small because they are pretty much all that's in there.

 

[SDguy]

I know it's your opinion, but QT's are not more stressful than a DT. You REALLY need to QT butterflies for a FOWLR system.

 

[Dcash88]

I don't really need to do anything, that is like me telling you that you REALLY need to stop qting your fish. Thanks for your opinion about a fish's stress I have seen otherwise which is what I base my decision on, I am sure you have seen things that you base your decision on. That is what is great about this hobby there are many ways of doing things and we can all share our experiences and learn from each other. IMO the only problem comes in when people try to push their ideas down others throat, like there opinion is the only acceptable or right one.

 

[sleepydoc]

Wow - a bit touchy are we?

 

[HumbleFish]

Generally with delicate fish or fish that have trouble acclimating I do not. IMO a qt is often more of a risk than a benefit.

Really? I better get my Moorish Idol out of QT ASAP! :spin3:

 

[SDguy]

I don't really need to do anything

:lol: Thanks for the chuckle...

 

[Dcash88]

sleepydoc - lol I guess I am a bit touchy about that, not the qt, just the my way or the highway thing. In my day to day life I deal with politics and foreign affairs a lot, I can understand people have different opinions, I can understand that they all think their opinions are the right ones, but what I can't get over is when they think they know better for someone else and that everyone must have their opinion.

humblefish - If you have good success with a qt then I am glad for you, I am not trying to talk you out of something that has been working for you. In fact I am not telling anyone what they should or should not do, everyone should make that decision for themselves based on their knowledge and experiences. I am just saying what I do because I was asked. I respect your technique even though it is not what I do. I hope your Moorish Idol does well.

SDguy - anytime. I thought the way you stated "I know its your opinion" and then went on to tell me how my opinion was wrong because your opinion is the right one! was amusing too :clown:

 

[MrTuskfish]

It may be "opinion"; but I know of no one in the hobby whom I would ever take advice from, that doesn't share that opinion. This includes the authors of every decent book on the hobby. Most hard-core QT devotees (including me) have gone through the work and frustration of tearing down a big tank and/or losing lots of fish. Never again. I know of very few long-time hobbyists, I can think of exactly one) who are not strict advocates of using a QT with all new fish. I'm convinced its a major reason for the huge turnover rate in our hobby.

 

[sleepydoc]

Mr. Ostercamp, my 9th grade English teacher comes to mind - he would frequently say to students "The best part about advice is you don't have to take it, but my advice to you is..."

I have not been in the hobby as long as many, but I recall one occasion when I had a velvet outbreak in my QT after getting some new fish. I lost all the new fish, but was VERY glad they were in a QT, not a DT.

I can only speak for myself, but any advice or answer I give is with the sole intent of helping either the original poster or others who may be following the thread, not to lecture, scold our tout my superior knowledge. The joy in this hobby comes from the success of a beautiful tank; As Tuskfish said, there is a long line of people who wish they had quarantined, and many posters here dealing with wipe outs of their DT. Every time I see one of those posts, my heart sinks both for the hobbyist, and for the loss of life. I think many share that sentiment, even if it comes across as being 'preachy' at times.