Salinity Question - Chemical Formulas

[chatyak]

I'm not sure why, but after 3 years of reef keeping I seem to be confused on this.

On the salt mixes we buy, they give examples of salinity and corresponding CA, MG, levels etc... for example on Reef Crystals it is:

1.023 - 405 ppm CA / 1200 MG


My question therefor is - Is it possible to keep the salinity at 1.023 and simply add supplements to raise the CA and MG and make it:

1.023 - (with supplements) 450ppm / 1300 MG


Or does adding supplements affect the salinity and move it up/down? The reason I ask is because I am using Microbelift Special Blend and it works between 1.017 and 1.025.

I'd like to keep my reef at 1.025 but the parameters may be a tiny bit too low for my liking, thereby my question on raising the parameters, without affecting the salinity reading.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The supplements have a small impact on salinity, but unless you are talking about a big boost, and especially to magnesium, the salinity won't change too much.

 

[chatyak]

Thank you Randy - just the man I was hoping who would chime in

I would like to take CA from 405 - 450+ and MG from 1200 to 1350-1400. Is this too much of a "change" in your estimation?

 

[DanInSD]

I have done this size of change, and it did impact the total salinity by about 0.003. Do the experiment on a small scale, like a gallon of water, and see where you end up. You may well have to start a little lower with the salt mix (1.020 or something) before your supplementation.

Dan

 

[chatyak]

I have done this size of change, and it did impact the total salinity by about 0.003. Do the experiment on a small scale, like a gallon of water, and see where you end up. You may well have to start a little lower with the salt mix (1.020 or something) before your supplementation.

Dan

Hmm that would be well too low for me, since the parameters around 1.025 are good, just not quite as high as I would like.... then again dosing at 1.025 would take it 1.028 on your readings....

The whole point of adding the supplements is so that I can keep my salinity between 1.024-1.025 but with high CA, dKH, and MG levels... I can try that 1 gallon test.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The salinity will rise with that big of a magnesium boost, but it won't go over average ocean salinity. A 200 ppm boost to magnesium will boost salinity by 0.2 ppt due to the magnesium and about 0.6 to 0.8 ppt for the anions with it, depending on what you use. Say that is a 1 ppt boost. That raises sg = 1.0250 to 1.0257.

Why are you concerned with keeping the salinity lower than natural ocean water?

 

[chatyak]

Why are you concerned with keeping the salinity lower than natural ocean water?

Due to Microbelift Special Blend only working up to 1.025 :bounce3:

Also .001 room for error in evaporation :fish1:

Thank you for the explanation. I will post back with some test results.

 

[chatyak]

The salinity will rise with that big of a magnesium boost, but it won't go over average ocean salinity. A 200 ppm boost to magnesium will boost salinity by 0.2 ppt due to the magnesium and about 0.6 to 0.8 ppt for the anions with it, depending on what you use. Say that is a 1 ppt boost. That raises sg = 1.0250 to 1.0257.

Is that a permanent boost? Another-words - will going from 1200 to 1400 MG permanently raise the salinity (until the MG dwindles down) or is a temporary measure like a ph rise for dKH boosts?

 

[chatyak]

Hmmm maybe this is un-needed.. I was just told from the company that:

"The Special Blend will work in a higher salinity. Sine the Special Blend first came out we have done a lot more testing with it and the statement about the "works between 1.017-1.025" will be removed with the next reprinting of the boxes and labels."

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not know if there is any value to the Microbe Lift over naturally occurring bacteria, but let us know what you find.

Yes, the salinity rise with a magnesium supplement is permanent unless the magnesium declines again, in which case the salinity may or may not decline, depending on other factors, such as how the alkalinity is supplied that it combines with.

 

[chatyak]

I do not know if there is any value to the Microbe Lift over naturally occurring bacteria, but let us know what you find.

Yes, the salinity rise with a magnesium supplement is permanent unless the magnesium declines again, in which case the salinity may or may not decline, depending on other factors, such as how the alkalinity is supplied that it combines with.

Much value Randy! I have done everything under the sun to keep water maintenance but I still have suffered from cyano. After I have been adding Microbelift's Special Blend bacteria, my cyano is dying faster than you can blink. From my understanding since cyano is well, a bacteria - my tank's bacteria is somehow out of balance and this is switching the odds to beneficial bacteria and the cyano is rapidly dying. Sand is also looking much cleaner.

It is like a "Red Slime Remover" but not a chemical - only natural bacteria and works - unlike the hit or miss with antibiotics - so it is not a band-aid on the problem but actually a fix, so it is fixing the flop-sided proportions of bacteria in the tank. Will keep this updated over the coming weeks as a follow up.


As for the alkalinity supplements - I use the two part dosing system from BRS - soda ash mixed with 1 gallon water etc.. So with daily evaporation and RO/DI being added - salinity is the same of course.... with daily dosing the salinity should in theory rise, but due to ro/di being added as well - it should also stay the same. It is only then for large corrections where the salinity should slightly rise?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The salinity slowly rises with use of a two part.

I'm glad you are finding positive results from the microbe lift.

 

[chatyak]

The salinity slowly rises with use of a two part.

I'm glad you are finding positive results from the microbe lift.

I will keep an eye on it then. How slow is "slowly"? :fish1:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That depends on how much you use.

In a high dose tank with no water changes, you might double salinity in a year , while a low dose tank might get a 10% rise in salinity in a year.

 

[chatyak]

The salinity slowly rises with use of a two part.

I'm glad you are finding positive results from the microbe lift.

Cyano retreating even more now as an update.... SB + a fighting conch has just destroyed it so far... will post again in a week or so. The remaining cyano is turning to a darker color.

 

[bertoni]

That sounds great!

 

[larryfl1]

i have been battling cyano in a pretty low nutrient environment...

i think i will try special blend...any issues/concerns?

 

[chatyak]

i have been battling cyano in a pretty low nutrient environment...

i think i will try special blend...any issues/concerns?

It seems to be working well - all cyano is gone from the sandbed however some new have formed, but this is due to things getting worse before they get better... because of the decrease in nutrients and breaking things down, the remaining cyano fed on what's left and thus I have seen a bit more. I will continue to report in the coming weeks. Although you should judge results after a month or so - not just a week like I have.

 

[larryfl1]

whats the update on the special blend...any negatives? does it affect bio pellets??

 

[chatyak]

It takes a few weeks for it to see full potential, but with that said - 99.9% of cyano I had on the sand is now gone and the cyano on my rocks that were also covered are also dying off day by day. I am going to keep using this on my weekly water change regimen.