Saltmix Parameters bring on the test results

[cougareyes]

It cracks me up when people think the salt mix is like cake batter and need to mix up the dry salt mix, like you could really could mix up separated elements equally. All the salt mix I've ever used started out as a liquid; whether natural, synthetic, or enhanced. Then it is evaporated which makes each granular a complete saltwater chain, the elements do not separate. If you purchase salt mix that is of separate elements you would have to mix the entire batch for it to usable. Anyone that gives you information about rolling a bucket around or shaking up the salt mix to mix is just to cover up poor quality control. Most of the time we add to the inconsistency and precipitation by the way we mix and test our own water.

 

[jason2459]

It cracks me up when people think the salt mix is like cake batter and need to mix up the dry salt mix, like you could really could mix up separated elements equally. All the salt mix I've ever used started out as a liquid; whether natural, synthetic, or enhanced. Then it is evaporated which makes each granular a complete saltwater chain, the elements do not separate. If you purchase salt mix that is of separate elements you would have to mix the entire batch for it to usable. Anyone that gives you information about rolling a bucket around or shaking up the salt mix to mix is just to cover up poor quality control. Most of the time we add to the inconsistency and precipitation by the way we mix and test our own water.

Sorry, but that is wrong. Salt that is gathered through drying is not complete. Saltmixes that we buy is added to and attempts to meet some kind of objective. Some are to meet natural saltwater parameters. Some for corals. Etc. Which is why most all saltmix brands we buy vary from one another on one and often way more then one element.

And yes, stratification can, has, and does occur.


Here's a start for something to read.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/

 

[bertoni]

The salt products we use are based on evaporated saltwater, in some sense, but that's probably limited to the NaCl component. The rest probably comes as separate ingredients or as contaminants. Drying saltwater converts a lot of the calcium and carbonate or bicarbonate into sand. The sand won't redissolve, so there would be no carbonate alkalinity in dried saltwater.

 

[cougareyes]

oh I forgot how many real chemist and biologist are on this board, I still find it funny how you think you are going to shake a bucket and evenly mix all the elements.

 

[jason2459]

oh I forgot how many real chemist and biologist are on this board, I still find it funny how you think you are going to shake a bucket and evenly mix all the elements.

Would you care to troll another board then?

 

[jason2459]

Results 45 minutes after achieving 35ppt at 25C were

Alkalinity: 11.5

Calcium: 420

Magnesium: 1305




Pretty darn close to what I would expect. Will repeat 1 more time.

Looks like that one was spot on. I think I can do better




Instant Ocean Triton results:

Estimates out to

35.67ppt

 

[jason2459]

One thing I really think is interesting is the silicon. Most likely from my water supply. But when testing my tank water it's well below the set point of 100ug/l. My sponges must be doing very well as I don't have a diatom issue.

Also, as I noted when scaling up to 2 gallons and larger sampling sizes I noticed larger granules when adding to the water. Once tested and before collecting samples for triton I noticed some stir along the bottom as I moved the pump around. What I need to add to my procedures is to move the circulation pump around just before achieving 35ppt and checking to see if that brings it up to 35ppt. And move it around again after the 45 minute wait is over one more time and make sure it's still at 35ppt.

With the cylinder and 1L volume the little pico pump was more then enough to stir everything up all the time. I think it's a bit under powered with the more volume but will do as long as I understand that.

So, I think I have learned and have a full set of steps I can repeat going forward. Again, doing this first with IO was very beneficial in knowing the general parameters already and tweaking my setup so I can repeat these tests again more accurately.

 

[CStrickland]

One thing I really think is interesting is the silicon. Most likely from my water supply. But when testing my tank water it's well below the set point of 100ug/l. My sponges must be doing very well as I don't have a diatom issue.

I wonder if it's the sort that would be accessible to diatoms?
There's a lot of silicon in our tanks, the seals, the rocks, etc. If Triton is using a test that can unbind those normally inaccessible forms it could be giving a false positive of sorts. IDk if that would be possible. Maybe test the next batch the same way you test the tank water, to see your consumption rate?

I'm filling my new 120, I'll post the results for comparison when I'm done. It should use up most of a fresh box of IO regular. I have also noticed granules, IO is a grittier mix than others I have used.

 

[jason2459]

If its silica from the water source it would be very much consumable and is getting consumed quite well. I have lots of sponges in my sump and some in my DT.

 

[timnem70]

FRITZ PRO REEF
78.9 degrees
Mag.1500
Ca.440
Alk.8.5
At 1.026

 

[jason2459]

FRITZ PRO REEF
78.9 degrees
Mag.1500
Ca.440
Alk.8.5
At 1.026

Thanks!

Nvm caught the edit

 

[bertoni]

Triton's testing would measure all forms of silicon that actually are in the water column and get past any filtration, but I would expect most of what they would detect to be silicate. The other forms mostly would be solids and tend to settle.

 

[jason2459]

So, I had someone ask me how I know my container is food grade.

Good enough? lol

 

[Mark426]

Average of 3 Salifert /Hanna for PO4

Brand: hw-Marine Mix Reefer
Temp: 78.6
Salinity: 1.026

Alkalinity: 8.6
Calcium: 440
Magnesium: 1380
PO4: 0
K: 390-400*

* Trition Labs

 

[jason2459]

Tested a batch of Reef Crystals tonight.

25C
35ppt
Alk: 11.8
Ca: 550
Mg: 1560

Triton samples mailing out tomorrow.

 

[jason2459]

Up way to early this morning so had time to open up a different bag of RC. Just don't feel right yet doing this just once.




New bag

25C

35ppt

Alk 12.2

Cal. 530

Mg: 1530










Interesting how much higher this is compared to the 2009 results. I've also have seen a few recent (past 8 -12 months) of people reporting really high Mg levels from RC.




From 2009

Reef Crystals

490

13

1440







Acccording to IO RC mixed to 1.026 or 35ppt Calcium should be around 455 and Mg around 1345. Of course that's their marketing. I don't think I've seen anyone report Mg levels under 1400 for RC before.




I just dropped off the samples last night to be sent to Triton.

 

[jason2459]

Looks like my perception was off. Looks like I did find through some searching some people that have reported testing under 1400.

But looks like so far overall you can expect to get around what the 2009 results were.

Around:
Calcium 490's
Alk 12-13
Mg: 1400's


What I have so far for RC

Reef Crystals
9/30/2009 77F 35ppt 490 13 1440
1/30/2016 78F 35ppt 440 15 1240
2/25/2016 1.027sg 450 10.3 1350
3/14/2016 77F 35ppt 550 11.8 1560
3/15/2016 77F 35ppt 530 12.2 1530

AVG 492.00 12.46 1424.00

 

[jason2459]

 

[tompot]

Morning Jason, the following results were taken from 2 full buckets of RedSea sea salt (blue bucket).

Bucket #1

__Date________pH____Alk____Cal___Mag__Conductivity
03-Oct-14_____8.22___ 8.6____ 425___1260____52.4____(Slightly less salt used "“ 585g)
10-Oct-14_____8.22___ 8.9____ 430___1260____53.1
17-Oct-14_____8.24___ 9.1____ 425___1290____52.9
20-Oct-14_____8.23___ 8.6____ 440___1290____53.1
25-Oct-14_____8.15___ 9.1____ 435___1275____52.9
31-Oct-14_____8.20___ 8.8____ 425___1275____53.1
7-Nov-14_____ 8.19___ 8.8____ 430___1260____53.0
14-Nov-14____ 8.21___ 8.8____ 440___1290____53.2
21-Nov-14____ 8.21___ 9.1____ 435___1290____53.4
28-Nov-14____ 8.21___ 8.6____ 435___1290____52.9
6-Dec-14_____ 8.23___ 8.6____ 435___1275____53.0
12-Dec-14____ 8.30___ 8.9____ 430___1260____53.2
19-Dec-14____ 8.22___ 8.8____ 435___1260____52.9
27-Dec-14____ 8.21___ 8.9____ 440___1290____53.1
2-Jan-15______8.21___ 8.6____ 435___1275____53.1
9-Jan-15______8.29___ 8.9____ 440___1275____53.1
16-Jan-15_____8.45___ 8.6____ 440___1275____53.1
23-Jan-15_____8.40___ 8.8____ 430___1275____53.4
30-Jan-15_____8.46___ 8.6____ 435___1275____53.1
6-Feb-15______8.40___8.6____440___1290____52.9
8-Feb-15______8.40___8.6____450___1275____53.3
13-Feb-15_____8.46___8.9____440___1290____53.3
20-Feb-15_____8.42___8.8____435___1275____53.3
27-Feb-15_____8.45___8.8____435___1305____53.4
6-Mar-15_____ 8.48___8.8____430___1260____53.4
7-Mar-15_____ 8.44___8.6____430___1290____53.4
13-Mar-15____ 8.40___9.1____435___1290____53.2
20-Mar-15____ 8.43___8.9____440___1305____53.2
27-Mar-15____ 8.46___8.8____435___1290____53.4
03-Apr-15_____8.42___8.9____435___1305____53.2
06-Apr-15_____8.40___9.1____430___1275____53.4
11-Apr-15_____8.43___9.1____430___1290____52.9
17-Apr-15_____8.41___9.1____435___1290____53.4
21-Apr-15_____8.49___8.8____435___1275____53.2
24-Apr-15_____8.38___8.8____435___1260____53.1
01-May-15____8.46___ 8.8____430___1290____53.3
09-May-15____8.43___ 8.9____435___1275____53.1

Bucket #2

__Date________pH____Alk____Cal___Mag__Conductivity
16-May-15____8.36 __ 10.9___ 430___1260____53.1
22-May-15____8.37___ 8.9____425___1275____52.9
06-Jun-15_____8.34___8.9____440 __ 1290____53.0
11-Jul-15 _____ 8.34___8.9____435___1275____52.9
18-Jul-15 _____ 8.35___9.1____445___1260____52.9
25-Jul-15 _____ 8.37___8.9____445___1275____52.8
01-Aug-15 ____ 8.41___9.1____440___1260____52.9
08-Aug-15 ____ 8.33___9.1____440___1290____52.8
15-Aug-15 ____ 8.36___8.9____445___1260____52.7
22-Aug-15 ____ 8.36___8.6____440___1290____52.7
25-Aug-15 ____ ---- ___8.6____440___1260____52.7
29-Aug-15 ____ 8.35___8.9____445___1305____52.7
05-Sep-15____ 8.40___ 8.9____ 450___1320____52.6
12-Sep-15____ 8.37___ 9.1____ 450___1335____52.6
19-Sep-15____ 8.11___ 8.8____ 455___1305____53.3
29-Sep-15____ 8.33___ 8.9____ 450___1290____52.9
03-Oct-15_____8.37___ 8.8____ 445___1305____52.9
05-Oct-15_____8.39___ 8.6____ 450___1305____52.9
06-Oct-15_____8.38___ 8.6____ 450___1290____52.8
09-Oct-15_____8.17___ 8.8____ 440___1290____52.9
10-Oct-15_____8.39___ 8.8____ 440___1290____52.9
11-Oct-15_____8.40___ 8.6____ 455___1290____53.0
12-Oct-15_____8.39___ 8.8____ 445___1275____53.1
13-Oct-15_____8.41___ 8.8____ 450___1305____52.9
14-Oct-15_____8.38___ 8.6____ 455___1305____53.0
15-Oct-15_____8.42___ 8.8____ 455___1305____53.0
16-Oct-15_____8.42___ 8.6____ 455___1290____52.9
17-Oct-15_____8.44___ 8.6____ 445___1275____53.0
18-Oct-15_____8.44___ 8.6____ 450___1275____53.0
19-Oct-15_____8.40___ 8.8____ 450___1305____53.0
20-Oct-15_____8.40___ 8.8____ 450___1320____53.0
26-Oct-15_____8.39___ 8.9____ 450___1275____53.2
31-Oct-15_____8.36___ 8.5____ 450___1275____53.0
07-Nov-15 ____ 8.41___8.5____445___1275____53.0

Averages______pH____Alk____Cal____Mag___Cond
Bucket #1_____8.34___8.8____434___ 1280___53.1
Bucket #2_____8.37___8.8____446___ 1288___52.9
RedSea_______8.30___8.0____430___ 1280___****(at 35.5ppt/PSU)

All measurements were taken from batches of 15 litre prep water used for weekly water changes.
DI water was weighed on digital kitchen scales at 15kg and salt was weighed on digital pocket scales at 590g "“ both sets of scales were calibrated using M1 calibration weights.

The pH measurements were initially taken using a Pinpoint pH meter, then from early January in bucket #1, using a Myron TechPro II TH1 meter.
Alkalinity, calcium and magnesium measurements were all taken using Salifert test kits and are shown as dKH, ppm and ppm, respectively.
The conductivity measurements were taken using a Myron Ultrameter II 4P and are recorded in mS (millisiemens).
Myron meters were calibrated against traceable standards. Salifert test kits were checked against Fauna Marin Multireference "“ several test kits of each type were used.

Mixing methods
De-ionised water at sub 1ppm TDS (typically around 0.6ppm using Myron meter) was aerated with air containing levels of CO2 relative to outside values, at around 400ppm for up to 1 week, but mainly for ease of use. The aerator was switched off just prior to adding salt.
Two Tunze Nano-stream pumps were used in the mixing vessel to ensure thorough mixing for around 12 hours "“ pumps switched on before adding salt.
All of the 590g of salt was added at once (mainly for repeatability purposes) to the 15 litres of DI water, which clouded the water initially, but went clear after a short time.
No heater was used in the mixing container. The temperature of the water ranged from 15ºC to 22ºC, due to heat generated by the pumps and ambient temperatures.
Tests were conducted 12 to 18 hours after adding the salt.

I am approaching the end of a third bucket, with very similar results.

Sorry for the length of this post.

Regards

 

[markalot]

I've seen reports of folks saying Red Sea Blue Bucket now mixing closer to 9 than the stated 8 KH. This really stinks since it's my go to salt for large water changes.