Sand Bed Vs Bare Bottom
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tperk9784
New member
I agree, from the reading I have done ( I just set up my 1st BB tank) is that a popular misconception with barebottom tanks is people try to keep them sterile.
In general successful barebottom tanks are those tanks who have larger fish loads and feed a lot but balance this out with the ability to remove the excess before it decays releasing ammonia and phosphates into the water column.
King-Kong
New member
The question of "BB vs. DSB" is more than aesthetics. Read the standard literature and common FAQs out there on the web for tanks, and then try it with a BB and watch how you fail (my first stab at BB failed because of this).
Most of the advice, hardware, and techniques are not geared for BB tanks. They are geared for DSB tanks and selling lifestock/merchandise.
Going BB requires different (and mostly less) hardware, less live rock, and typically more fish and feeding.
BB also allows you to get away with a ton less conistancy than DSB tanks (such as fluctations in SG, pH, temperature).
I will say one disclaimer; some people (Like Rich) advocate a kind of hybrid theory when using sand that incorporates a lot of BB theory. The overwhelming amount of advice and hobby literature, however, does not.
Most of the advice, hardware, and techniques are not geared for BB tanks. They are geared for DSB tanks and selling lifestock/merchandise.
Going BB requires different (and mostly less) hardware, less live rock, and typically more fish and feeding.
BB also allows you to get away with a ton less conistancy than DSB tanks (such as fluctations in SG, pH, temperature).
I will say one disclaimer; some people (Like Rich) advocate a kind of hybrid theory when using sand that incorporates a lot of BB theory. The overwhelming amount of advice and hobby literature, however, does not.
i am moving my tank in two weeks, i was thinking of setting up bare bottom. tank is 60x24x20tall flow is 2 mag 9.5 return and 1 6100 and 1 vortec will this keep the detritis mostly suspended and what if i do not use a micron bag should i use one at first?My tank is acrylic can i place my rock directly on the bottom without starboard?
RichConley
New member
King Kong, you'll also fail with a DSB, it just takes longer. The sand acts as a cushion.
Like you said, I have a "hybrid" idea of how a DSB should be kept, and its pretty similar to just a BB with sand. Extremely high flow, big skimmer, lots of fish.
greenbean36191
Premium Member
These are very cartoonish and unrealistic ideas of reef ecology. They're hardly strong arguments for one method over another.
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
I have sand, but other than that my tank is barebottom. What I mean by that is run my tank like I dont have sand. High flow so nothing settles and rots, skimming very hard and wet to remove it all before it breaks down. I just have sand for the looks.
Sand aside, the way I see it is there are two sides: process the waste and break it down, or remove it before it breaks down. You can do either with or without sand, but it happens to be that the most popular way to process the waste is DSB, and the most popular way to remove the waste is BB.
Sand aside, the way I see it is there are two sides: process the waste and break it down, or remove it before it breaks down. You can do either with or without sand, but it happens to be that the most popular way to process the waste is DSB, and the most popular way to remove the waste is BB.
The Reefer91
New member
i think people should stop bashing each others methods. the idea that it is not natural for corals to be in a place with sand is a bit far-fetched, and the idea that SPS need sand is also ridiculous. both methods(DSB and BB) have one characteristic in common. if you don't research it, your tank will crash and burn in front of your eyes.
some of the arguement is also aesthetics. some like sand, some don't. but the arguement that some people make with phrasing such as "no sand, no decomposing" is ludacris and absurd. it's all a matter of research. i've seen alot of successful BB tanks, but there are just as many successful DSB and SSB tanks to match it. i like sand, so my opinion is a little bias, but i will also end up trying out a BB tank as well. i think there is no evidence to show that one method is better than the other.
sorry to rant, but there have been so many threads with this topic that evolve into wars, reefers insulting each others husbandry, it just gets out of hand.
and on a lighter note, the weather is beautiful here in Northern VA
some of the arguement is also aesthetics. some like sand, some don't. but the arguement that some people make with phrasing such as "no sand, no decomposing" is ludacris and absurd. it's all a matter of research. i've seen alot of successful BB tanks, but there are just as many successful DSB and SSB tanks to match it. i like sand, so my opinion is a little bias, but i will also end up trying out a BB tank as well. i think there is no evidence to show that one method is better than the other.
sorry to rant, but there have been so many threads with this topic that evolve into wars, reefers insulting each others husbandry, it just gets out of hand.
and on a lighter note, the weather is beautiful here in Northern VA
boxfishpooalot
Active member
greenbean, explain to us how it all works then 
Scissorhand
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10543989#post10543989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Reefer91
i think people should stop bashing each others methods. the idea that it is not natural for corals to be in a place with sand is a bit far-fetched, and the idea that SPS need sand is also ridiculous. both methods(DSB and BB) have one characteristic in common. if you don't research it, your tank will crash and burn in front of your eyes.
some of the arguement is also aesthetics. some like sand, some don't. but the arguement that some people make with phrasing such as "no sand, no decomposing" is ludacris and absurd. it's all a matter of research. i've seen alot of successful BB tanks, but there are just as many successful DSB and SSB tanks to match it. i like sand, so my opinion is a little bias, but i will also end up trying out a BB tank as well. i think there is no evidence to show that one method is better than the other.
sorry to rant, but there have been so many threads with this topic that evolve into wars, reefers insulting each others husbandry, it just gets out of hand.
and on a lighter note, the weather is beautiful here in Northern VA
Agreed. I've seen pictures of successful reef aquariums that incorporate DSB, BB, or SSB. I think it really boils down to proper husbandry of each system.
virginiadiver69
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10545098#post10545098 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boxfishpooalot
greenbean, explain to us how it all works then
Please don't encourage "her"
law086
Premium Member
This is an interesting post to me, mostly because I tend to stay away from the sand bed debates and haven't done my homework on BB tanks (since I'm a fan of a SSB).
Can you explain how/why a BB setup would run better with less hardware, less rock and more fish/food? I'm also curious as to how/why a sand bed could affect the impact of PH (for example) fluctuations.
Thanks,
Ron
King-Kong
New member
BB tanks require less light than their DSB counterparts. BB tanks can easily be sustained without MH for SPS corals, and most BB users have to cut back their MH photoperiods to amounts as low as 3hrs.
BB tanks also have a lot less carbon demands.. as such, they uptake far less alkalinity, allowing users to have thriving SPS tanks without calcium reactors (the large biomass of bacteria found in DSBs is the major user of carbon in tanks.. remove the hungry source, and well.. you dont need as much)
Because of the importance of flow carrying away detritus in a BB system, and the reliance on the protein skimmer as the core means of export, "less rock is more" in BB tanks. Having more rock only impedes flow, gives detritus a place to hide away and rot, and costs you money.
Most BB tanks, also, are run too nutrient poor. This means pastel colors in SPS corals, and reduced growth in LPS. To offset it, most BB users have quickly found that increasing their bioload over that with traditional DSB setups has almost become a requirement.
As for the pH related comment; there are 3 major factors that will cause the bacteria colonies in sandbeds to fluctuate. pH, temperature, and salinity. It's not so much that SPS corals need "absolute stability", as it is that sand beds require stability. Do a large w/c where pH and salinity dont match up? Bacteria fluctuates, changes nutrient level in tank, SPS corals have to deal with sudden change in water conditions, and arent happy as a result. Because this giant biomass doesnt exist at such quantities in a BB tank, there isnt the same population to anger.
BB tanks also have a lot less carbon demands.. as such, they uptake far less alkalinity, allowing users to have thriving SPS tanks without calcium reactors (the large biomass of bacteria found in DSBs is the major user of carbon in tanks.. remove the hungry source, and well.. you dont need as much)
Because of the importance of flow carrying away detritus in a BB system, and the reliance on the protein skimmer as the core means of export, "less rock is more" in BB tanks. Having more rock only impedes flow, gives detritus a place to hide away and rot, and costs you money.
Most BB tanks, also, are run too nutrient poor. This means pastel colors in SPS corals, and reduced growth in LPS. To offset it, most BB users have quickly found that increasing their bioload over that with traditional DSB setups has almost become a requirement.
As for the pH related comment; there are 3 major factors that will cause the bacteria colonies in sandbeds to fluctuate. pH, temperature, and salinity. It's not so much that SPS corals need "absolute stability", as it is that sand beds require stability. Do a large w/c where pH and salinity dont match up? Bacteria fluctuates, changes nutrient level in tank, SPS corals have to deal with sudden change in water conditions, and arent happy as a result. Because this giant biomass doesnt exist at such quantities in a BB tank, there isnt the same population to anger.
insanefishguy
New member
That was a very informative post. Thank you king kong. I feel the need to go out and buy a bunch of fish though. I removed my dsb a few weeks ago and have noticed a lightening of my sps. I was not aware of the light difference though. could explain why that is?
insanefishguy
New member
Hey law086, you are right up 309 from me...
HBtank
Premium Member
Lots of opinions are being presented as fact in this thread...
Anyways, I use DSB in the display and my fuge. It is working for me but my personal philosophies are very far from the sterile concepts of most BB tanks. Anyways, I hope my ideas work.
Both should have massive flow to be healthy though. One distinct commonality.
Anyways, I use DSB in the display and my fuge. It is working for me but my personal philosophies are very far from the sterile concepts of most BB tanks. Anyways, I hope my ideas work.
Both should have massive flow to be healthy though. One distinct commonality.
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Aqua Keepers
New member
I vote KK's last post to be "The" BB explenation post of all BB eplenation posts.
