Sand is Sand......right?

[RockyMtnReef]

I know this question has been asked before but I can never seem to get the search function to operate any more.

I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the following:

My local Home Depot had a pallat of sand the other day that looked perfect for a reef. The bag is mainly clear with blue accents and was labled "Premium Play Sand". It is described as 'Non-toxic, Washed, 100% safe and not for industrial use".

I bought a bunch for my son's sand box and it is beautiful. Very fine, white uniform grains but is clearly not calcium (coral) based. I was thinking about using the 100 lbs or so that I have left over plus 40 lbs of Aragamax that I have sitting around (to add a little texture) to create a shallow sand bed in front to my rock work in the 250 gal SPS tank I am setting up. I am going to keep the area under and behind the rocks bare bottom.

Thoughts, experiences, warnings?

Thanks in advance.

 

[gavinbree]

2 years ago i decided to go with a DSB and bought some playsand from my local home department store, washed it through etc etc and adding it the tank, it was fine for a couple of months.

However after 3 months or so an algae bloom broke out like nothing you had seen in your life, my tank was basically a tank full of phyto and you couldn't even see a few inches into the tank.

The sand had dumped nitrates and phosphates (probably amongst other things) into my water and because i was dosing live phyto it had gone mental.

I lost 70% of my coral and learnt there and then that it's not wise to be a cheap *** in this hobby...

The thing is with home depot sand you don't know what you're getting.

So no sand isn't just sand ..

 

[Reefing102]

heres a link to use the search function - http://www.reefcentral.com/search.php?s=&menu=11

I used to never be able to search, then found that link and its been working perfectly fine

 

[Wiskey]

I think you are talking about the same sand that is in my DSB tank, it works great for me. FWIR there is not a problem with using cillica sand in a reef.

Whiskey

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7943049#post7943049 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gavinbree
However after 3 months or so an algae bloom broke out like nothing you had seen in your life, my tank was basically a tank full of phyto and you couldn't even see a few inches into the tank.

The sand had dumped nitrates and phosphates (probably amongst other things) into my water and because i was dosing live phyto it had gone mental.

Did you actually test the sand? It sounds to me that dumping phyto into a new tank is the problem. Most of hte phyto products are chock full of phosphates and nitrates. (they grow phyto with fertalizer)

I'd say the phyto, and not the sand, is your issue.

The thing is with home depot sand you don't know what you're getting.

So no sand isn't just sand ..

You know just as much as you do with the stuff at the LFS.

I use home depot sand. I use kolorscape now, and used to use southdown when it was still available. I cant grow algae even if I try.

 

[gavinbree]

You think dosing a small bit of phyto is going to supply the tank with enough nitrate and phosphate to cause a thick pea soup .. I don't think so ..!!

Besides it wasn't a new tank it was a bare bottom tank which i added sand too.

Play sand can be minded from just about anywhere and you have no idea what other minerals are present in the rock, or what dissolved nutrients have seeped from the surface down into it.

There is less chance i am guna get harmful contaminants from LFS sand (carbisea etc) than i am playsand.

Rockymtnreef ask for experiences and warnings and i am giving him one.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7943499#post7943499 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gavinbree
You think dosing a small bit of phyto is going to supply the tank with enough nitrate and phosphate to cause a thick pea soup

YES!!!! You're dumping liquid fertalizer into your tank.

Playsand can be minded from just about anywhere and you have no idea what other minerals are present in the rock, or what dissolved nutrients have seeped from the surface down into it.

There is less chance i am guna get harmful contaminents from LFS sand (carbisea etc) than i am playsand.

Caribsea,etc was nothing but REBADGED southdown. These sands are mined too, and have just as much chance of having stuff in them. Heres the difference: playsands are meant to be used with children, so they have to be clean. Caribsea? Not so much.

 

[gavinbree]

Um i was refering to something more like sugar sized aragamax not southdown.

I find it strange that you are trying to blame my experience on the phyto which i had been using 6 months prior to adding the sand to the aquarium, I had no problems with it before. (or any since)

Needless to say my problem ended when i removed the sand, so yea i would say it was the sand.

But like i say, i'm just saying what happened, there is really no need to get so defensive about it.

 

[adw]

What is harmful to children and what is harmful to our tanks are two different things. Last time I checked I hadn't heard of any children having algae out breaks.

 

[RockyMtnReef]

Wow, definitely some difference in opinion. I would love to hear from others to get a more general concensus. I really appreciate everyone's honest feedback.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7943692#post7943692 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by adw
What is harmful to children and what is harmful to our tanks are two different things. Last time I checked I hadn't heard of any children having algae out breaks.

And I've never heard a reliable account of new sand causing algae outbreaks.


10s of thousands of people are using playsand in their reefs and other fishtanks. Its fine.

The point is, plenty of us use it, and plenty of us are fine.

As to the southdown, vs sugar fine aragamax, the other poster mentioned, theyre the same thing.


You were dumping phyto into your tank, made a major change, and had a phyto bloom. Why does this surpise you? Anytime you make major changes to a tank, you should expect the tank to respond in kind.

 

[Eric Boerner]

Regular play sand make up is primarily silica based. Diatoms will feed off the silica and cause diatom blooms, which then feed other algaes. It is not uncommon for people using silica based sand to have more frequent algae and diatom outbreaks than those using calcium based sand. This is a well documented fact. Please refer to Farley's articles about silica and diatoms.

I personally have set up tanks using Pacific coast beach sand, and have suffered through many algae outbreaks because of it. The best way to control these occurances using silica based sand is through many frequent water changes with NSW on a constant basis. My own opinion is that it simply isn't worth the effort and no long keep cold water tanks as a result.

Sand isn't just sand. The geologic make up of the sand you use will cause varying changes to you system.

There is a substrate available that has 50 times more iron in it than any other sand. It will cause macro algaes to grow at very rapid paces. It will also rust...

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7944279#post7944279 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Eric Boerner
Regular play sand make up is primarily silica based. Diatoms will feed off the silica and cause diatom blooms, which then feed other algaes. It is not uncommon for people using silica based sand to have more frequent algae and diatom outbreaks than those using calcium based sand. This is a well documented fact. Please refer to Farley's articles about silica and diatoms.

Eric, please refer to those same articles that you reference. Silica and Silicate are different compounds. Silica based sand is the same as glass basically, and will not cause algae outbreaks. Silicate, yes, silica, no.


Heres an article about it by Rob Toonen, with some input by Farley
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen9.html

 

[Eric Boerner]

In that particular article, Toonen wrote his personal feelings about quartz sand and how he felt it didn't effect our tanks. His opinion is his opinion, which was swiftly corrected by both Farley and Bingman. The fact is that not all sand is pure quartz sand. Most contains feldspar, which is highly soluable. With my own personal experience using real coastal sand, there is far more than just quartz in the sand which contributed to algae out breaks and diatom blooms.

Both Farley and Bingman state that it is best to test over the counter silicate based sand before adding it to a system, because of the risk of diatom feeding cycles.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7944407#post7944407 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Eric Boerner
In that particular article, Toonen wrote his personal feelings about quartz sand and how he felt it didn't effect our tanks. His opinion is his opinion, which was swiftly corrected by both Farley and Bingman. The fact is that not all sand is pure quartz sand.

Right, just like not all LFS stuff is pure aragonite. There are plenty of pure quartz sands available, and they are often sold at Home Depot.


Kolorscape is pure quartz, IIRC.

 

[bnlimit10]

wow! if Murphy was alive he would have a ball with all of you. Can you use silica based sands? Sure, can something go wrong using them, such as algae blooms? sure. Can this happen with so called pure argonite? yes.

Stop complicating the issue, the fact is do your homework and test the sands before you add it to the tank. as long as the sand is not leaching unwanted substances its fine. Bottom line unless you have a laboratory and are able to perform all kinds of tests, and be able to identify the difference in makeup between silica and silicate. you are gambling or just taking their word for it.

remember if something can go wrong it will. So do your homework.

 

[RockyMtnReef]

Wow,
I guess the bare bottom guys could use this string as another example of why we should all ditch sand completely

To be honest I dont know what do to now.

 

[RichConley]

"My local Home Depot had a pallat of sand the other day that looked perfect for a reef. The bag is mainly clear with blue accents and was labled "Premium Play Sand". It is described as 'Non-toxic, Washed, 100% safe and not for industrial use"."

What does the bag say?

It is Kolorscape?

 

[bnlimit10]

let me simplify it further, if the bag has a disclaimer, like this sand does not pass guidelines of the state of california or where ever, as it is considered toxic or can cause cancer or something to that effect. dont use it.

 

[RCS]

I think blaming the sand for an algae outbreak is akin to blaming your lights for an algae outbreak. They may be a part of the process/problem, but they're not the cause, so to speak.

I've used many varieties of play sand in many tanks for many years and never had a problem attributable to the sand at all.

Phyto doesn't grow from sand. Aside from some which may have a silicate component, I'd be hard-pressed to see any correlation between the sand and the greenwater outbreak, aside from perhaps improper cleaning/washing of the sand and perhaps adding tap water into the tank. If it caused an outbreak, something was on the verge of happening there anyway.