sandbed
- Thread starter BryanJ
- Start date
kiowascout
New member
I saw somw silica based stuff at Home depot on taylor street.
I dont know if you are gung ho about using aragonite or not,so I thought that I would throw that out there for you.
I dont know if you are gung ho about using aragonite or not,so I thought that I would throw that out there for you.
scooters reef
New member
For use in a remote sandbed, I don't think it really matters much. The added buffering capability would be too minor to make any difference.
kiowascout
New member
I agree with you Scooter. Silica based is what I used. I bought it at lowes and it became live with time as all things do. Works great for me.
scooters reef
New member
Well, even beyond that. If live means critters, then it's a refugium, not a remote sandbed. If live means bacteria, then either still works. A remote sandbed wouldn't have anything beyond bacteria in it anyway though.
scooters reef
New member
Here's a LONG but interesting thread on doing it in a bucket 
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595109
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595109
RCS
In Memoriam
Added buffering capacity with aragonite is sort of a myth in the reefkeeping world anyway. I won't say it provides no buffering ability (as there's some evidence it does provide minute amounts of local buffering due to the processes taking place in a DSB), but its usefulness in that regard is mostly insignificant.
I've always used plain old silica sand strictly for the sake of cost. The grains never clump together either, which is possible with aragonite sands. There are so many different brands out there, even in a display tank you can choose any number of shades.
I've always used plain old silica sand strictly for the sake of cost. The grains never clump together either, which is possible with aragonite sands. There are so many different brands out there, even in a display tank you can choose any number of shades.
scooters reef
New member
Oh, well then you will find more opinions than there are people 
Even without buffering being taken into account (and I still don't think it does enough to measured) you may still want a particular grain size and shape. Depending on the volume you need though, I think I'd either go silica if a large amount, or just spend a little extra for a branded aragonite if the volume is small. Or a mix maybe.
Even without buffering being taken into account (and I still don't think it does enough to measured) you may still want a particular grain size and shape. Depending on the volume you need though, I think I'd either go silica if a large amount, or just spend a little extra for a branded aragonite if the volume is small. Or a mix maybe.Scootersreef,
Is a remote sandbed not a refugium also as numerous copepods and other aquatic inverts colonize the sand. True, without adding suplemental lighting you will find it difficult to grow macroalgae, but plenty of other organisms will find "refuge" in a remote sandbed, have babies and contribute to the microscopic food for the corals in the display tank.
Is a remote sandbed not a refugium also as numerous copepods and other aquatic inverts colonize the sand. True, without adding suplemental lighting you will find it difficult to grow macroalgae, but plenty of other organisms will find "refuge" in a remote sandbed, have babies and contribute to the microscopic food for the corals in the display tank.
scooters reef
New member
No, a remote sandbed is just that, nothing but a sandbed. There is no need for any inverts. But, even if covered and left in complete blackness I'd guess something may end up inhabiting the upper layer of sand. If the water flow over it is just strong enough though, I can't imagine many inverts settling in, and you really wouldn't want them too.
RCS
In Memoriam
How technical do you want to get? Without any inverts in the sandbed (microfauna, crustaceans, bacteria, etc.) it will literally be just a sandbed, and there wouldn't be any purpose to having it.
A sandbed will be a wealth of production for all sorts of tiny life forms, not to mention the bacterial growth (both aerobic and anaerobic, depending on oxygen availability). While not a true refugium in the classic sense of the term, the reality is that there will be little to no predation going on in the remote sandbed and there will be a thriving abundance of life crawling over, through, in and from it.
A sandbed will be a wealth of production for all sorts of tiny life forms, not to mention the bacterial growth (both aerobic and anaerobic, depending on oxygen availability). While not a true refugium in the classic sense of the term, the reality is that there will be little to no predation going on in the remote sandbed and there will be a thriving abundance of life crawling over, through, in and from it.
scooters reef
New member
RCS, I'm getting technical to the point of differentiating between a remote sand bed, and a refugium. Both serve different purposes and are very different. Your quote is correct " Without any inverts in the sandbed (microfauna, crustaceans, bacteria, etc.) it will literally be just a sandbed.." to that point, except there IS a point to having it, removal of nitrates. Otherwise, to say there is no point means you want a refugium (is all I have right now), and is a different animal serving other purposes as well.
I posted a link from Calfo's old forum with all the details, although many posted there with the same questions until answered by Anthony and others.
I posted a link from Calfo's old forum with all the details, although many posted there with the same questions until answered by Anthony and others.
scooters reef
New member
That is primarily nitrite reduction, not nitrate reduction. AND, I only have a DSB refugium myself. I'm not comparing what does, or doesn't, belong in a refugium. But, a remote sandbed IS different, DOES serve a purpose, and besides the link above, is referenced by Bob Fenner on his own site, have seen Randy Holmes Farly briefly discuss it. But, for myself, Anthony Calfo is all the reference I need to at least know it's different, even if not needed by all people or systems. Nitrates are reduced by anaerobic bacteria, and a refugium will seldomn be deep enough for much of it, and the fauna keeps things stirred up to reduce it further.
I mistyped my last post. A box of sand remotely attached to your tank will do little for your tank unless it is :
1) Properly seeded with microfauna
2) Deep enough for nitrate reduction (or be part of a plenum system). Who really worries about nitrite production?
Not looking to get into an argument over the semantics of all of these postsabout refugia or DSBs. Just offering my advice to Bryan.
1) Properly seeded with microfauna
2) Deep enough for nitrate reduction (or be part of a plenum system). Who really worries about nitrite production?
Not looking to get into an argument over the semantics of all of these postsabout refugia or DSBs. Just offering my advice to Bryan.
scooters reef
New member
Well, Bryan is dealing with a refugium, so is different anyway. AND, is also no different than a DSB if he chosses to utilize that. The remote part, and if it has a use or not (you stated not) was my point. Also, I'm NOT saying anyone should follow one or the other, ignore one or the other, but that they are different things. Then, you stated it server no purpose otherwise. I don't use a remote sandbed, maybe never will, but didn't want anyone else to not see, look, read, etc, to know that it serving no purpose isn't really the case
And we ALL worry about nitrite reduction, we just all have rock that already does it, or a DSB in our display or refugium. Skimmers remove things before they even get that far. We are obviously past that, because it is easily reduced to nitrates. Removing nitrates is a different story. A remote sand bed is good for NOTHING except that. It is specialized, yet does work for those that need it and choose to employ it.
But, I HOPE you don't think I'm arguing remote DSB vs. a refugium vs. in tank DSB, as they are different and have nothing to do with each other. A remote sand bed is NOTHING but a differnt take ont the old coil denitrators, except easier to maintain.
And we ALL worry about nitrite reduction, we just all have rock that already does it, or a DSB in our display or refugium. Skimmers remove things before they even get that far. We are obviously past that, because it is easily reduced to nitrates. Removing nitrates is a different story. A remote sand bed is good for NOTHING except that. It is specialized, yet does work for those that need it and choose to employ it.
But, I HOPE you don't think I'm arguing remote DSB vs. a refugium vs. in tank DSB, as they are different and have nothing to do with each other. A remote sand bed is NOTHING but a differnt take ont the old coil denitrators, except easier to maintain.
