Save Bangai Cardinal eggs

[callsign4223]

I purchased a pair of Bangai Cardinals from a local reefer through facebook. When I got there to pick them up he let me know that they had bred multiple times in the past. I don't really intend to raise baby fish but it was a cool story. On the way home my kid said there was stuff in the bag. I just figured it was poo or detritus. Nope, its bangai eggs. I'm guessing the male was broody and spit them out due to the stress.

I am attempting to save them, is this possible?

I drilled some holes in an old cereal bowl and zip tied it to the center brace of my tank and put the eggs in there. They appear to be pretty far along. You can see identifiable fry attached to egg sacs in them. Will they hatch being protected with flow? Is there anything else they need? Is this a lost cause already? If they do hatch, what am I going to need to get them to a size that is suitable for release in the main tank?

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

Worth the effort and they will need to be fairly bigger than hatch.

 

[callsign4223]

At this point I figure I'll keep the hatchlings in the cereal bowl until they're big enough to not get eaten immediately by the clowns. If they hatch. The cereal bowl is directly in line with my gyre so it's getting water circulation through it.


I just have no clue what to feed them if they hatch.

 

[callsign4223]

We have at least 3 fry that hatched. Vigorously eating baby brine shrimp.

 

[Imaexpat2]

Sounds like you made a good save! Hopefully the force is with you and you can at least save some of them, despite the male spitting them out.

Please do post progress reports as I just bought six in a effort to hopefully have a couple pair up. I wouldnt mind having a successful brood or two over the next couple of years for the experience if nothing else. Any pointers based off your experience you could provide would be greatly appreciated!

 

[callsign4223]

I'll post updates as I go along. I've heard you need an urchin for the babies to live in, but I'm going to try to just keep them separated until they're large enough to survive in the tank. I'm still not sure I'm going to keep trying to breed them after this, I hadn't really intended to breed them in the first place it was more accidental that the male spit a clutch of eggs in transport. If I do, I will definitely be getting a clear acrylic box to magnet or suction cup to the side of the tank instead of zip tieing a cereal bowl to the brace. My cover nets don't sit right and it's hard to see inside the bowl because it's not much wider than the brace.

 

[Imaexpat2]

I have herd they use those for protection against predatory fish. Some friends I know that have bred them just used some putty for gluing rocks together and stuck a bunch of zip ties in it and let it harden as a make shift Sea Urchin. Might try that if your so inclined...

 

[callsign4223]

Lost one of the babies. The other two are still eating and growing. The one we lost was the last to lose it's egg sac and never really was as active as the other two.

 

[Imaexpat2]

Thanks for the update. Glad you were able to save a couple!!!

 

[callsign4223]

So, the two survivors are growing well. I got a couple breeding enclosures from Amazon. A nylon net type and a acrylic box type. I’ve been using the nylon net type, and it seems to work well. I do think the acrylic box will be better for tiny fry, the flow through the netting was almost too strong for the fry when I first moved them into it and they were almost a month old at that point.

The issue I’m having at this point is trying to convert them to pellet food. I got some golden pearls from BRS but they seem completely uninterested in them. They will mouth them then spit them out. I’m still feeding baby brine shrimp at this point. I have tried putting the BBS and the pearls in at the same time and that hasn’t worked either.

 

[toby.toby]

congrats on managing to raise them this far, ive always found bangaiis to be fussy eaters , brine and frozen mysis was the only things i found mine would eat.

i'd try to get them big and healthy on gut loaded brine and introduce small mysis, before then trying the dry food introduction .

 

[callsign4223]

I'm not really setup to grow out the brine shrimp. I have an unpowered hatchery I got from BRS that is doing awesome at it's job and I've just been direct feeding from it into the breeding net in the tank where the babies are. I guess I could "borrow" one of the wife's one gallon tea jugs for grow out enclosure but I don't have any air pumps on hand. Also, what do you feed the brine shrimp, and how long does it take for them to grow enough to be fed to the babies? My understanding is that with the baby brine it's really the yolk sac that is the nutritious part for the fish.

 

[toby.toby]

you can feed the brine many things, but best to stick to stuff that won't polite the water too fast, any nutritional stuff or convenient feed like selcon and phyto etc

the main thing is to make sure they are fed to the fish soon after they have fed, like the yolk sacs are good nutrition , feeding brine within a 12 hour window after you've fed (ideally a few hours after) will ensure the best nutrition for the fish.

it's all about using the brine as carriers of nutrition rather than the brine themselves (inked babies wit h the yolk sac)

 

[callsign4223]

I was able to net the male and he is now in timeout in the acrylic breeder box. He quit eating about a week ago so I'm hoping I'll see some babies in there in the next week.

On a side note, I need some nets with bigger openings. I had to chase him more than I was comfortable with because he was getting around the nets too easy. It took a couple days to get him because I didn't want to stress him too much and make him spit the eggs.

 

[toby.toby]

I was able to net the male and he is now in timeout in the acrylic breeder box. He quit eating about a week ago so I'm hoping I'll see some babies in there in the next week.



On a side note, I need some nets with bigger openings. I had to chase him more than I was comfortable with because he was getting around the nets too easy. It took a couple days to get him because I didn't want to stress him too much and make him spit the eggs.

good work!

did you try to catch him after lights out that tends to be the easiest

 

[callsign4223]

No, he sleeps in the rock work. I have to wait until the lights come on for him to come out in the open.

 

[jjencek]

I was able to net the male and he is now in timeout in the acrylic breeder box. He quit eating about a week ago so I'm hoping I'll see some babies in there in the next week.

On a side note, I need some nets with bigger openings. I had to chase him more than I was comfortable with because he was getting around the nets too easy. It took a couple days to get him because I didn't want to stress him too much and make him spit the eggs.

My Bangai male keeps the eggs in his mouth for 30+ days before releasing them.

 

[callsign4223]

Hmmm

Maybe I just didn't notice as quickly last time. Either way, he is stuck in his box until I see babies or his mouth goes back to normal size.

 

[callsign4223]

Had a set back last night. I killed one of the babies. The mesh breeder box I have them in was starting to get overgrown with algae. I figured it was about time to clean it off. I filled a one gallon container with tank water and netted the babies out and into it. I then took the breeder box out and rinsed it off in the sink. Put it back in the tank and netted the babies back into it. Came back about 30 minutes later and one of them was dead.




They weren't in the separate container for more than 5 minutes and it was water pulled directly from the tank they were in so I don't think that had anything to do with it.

The mesh was very grown up with gunk, and there was almost no flow in the breeder box any more. After cleaning it and putting the babies back in I could tell there was quite a bit of flow in there. The babies seemed to be handling it ok.

I did clean it in the sink and then take it right back to the tank and put it in. MAYBE there was some residue on it from the tap water still? I find that very hard to believe considering I put it into a 120 gallon tank with decent flow. I didn't use any cleaner, just rinsed it in tap water from the kitchen faucet.

 

[Magik]

Had a set back last night. I killed one of the babies. The mesh breeder box I have them in was starting to get overgrown with algae. I figured it was about time to clean it off. I filled a one gallon container with tank water and netted the babies out and into it. I then took the breeder box out and rinsed it off in the sink. Put it back in the tank and netted the babies back into it. Came back about 30 minutes later and one of them was dead.




They weren't in the separate container for more than 5 minutes and it was water pulled directly from the tank they were in so I don't think that had anything to do with it.

The mesh was very grown up with gunk, and there was almost no flow in the breeder box any more. After cleaning it and putting the babies back in I could tell there was quite a bit of flow in there. The babies seemed to be handling it ok.

I did clean it in the sink and then take it right back to the tank and put it in. MAYBE there was some residue on it from the tap water still? I find that very hard to believe considering I put it into a 120 gallon tank with decent flow. I didn't use any cleaner, just rinsed it in tap water from the kitchen faucet.

Baby Banggais - or even adult Banggais - are easily stressed, adults get brown, I even had one die from stress after being bullied in LFS.

Baby Banggais are known to die from stress when eating unenriched brine shrimps. I was able to get away with it by feeding baby brine shrimps asap when they are freshly hatched and have most nutritional value.

TL;DR Baby Banggais are prone to die from stress, I would avoid netting them. To improve their resilience, feed brine shrimp very soon after hatching or enrich with HUFA (e.g. Selcon)