Saving my tank?

[cootiebugg]

After 6 wks. of watching my corals slowly die I'm at a loss of what to do. My tank specs are as follows:
90 gal aga reef w/mag 12 return and 2 Tunze 6000 w controller
30 gal sump w/ filter sock and carbon bag
dual 250w MH 10,000 XM bulbs 8 months old.
Temp. 78.2-80.1
sal 1.025
ph 8.12
alk 400
calc 420
mag 1500
all as of this morning with the lights out.
Last Sat. weekly test results.
amm 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
phos <.03
all with salifert test kits.
I dose with B Ionic 2 part. I was doing a 15 gal water change every 2 weeks until my trouble began, then I increased to weekly 20 gal changes. The only change I've made is switching from IO salt to Tropic Marin Pro reef after the problem started. I only have 3 fish and feed moderately. The only other additions have been some small colonies and frags from a local reefer approx. 6 mos. ago. All have died and my loses continue. I have some thoughts on my next course of action but it seems a little drastic.
Any suggestions?

 

[Malolo]

Everything looks pretty good. The alk needs clarification but at a pH of 8.1 it cant be too bad. Your bulbs are a little long in the tooth, someone might chime in on the longevity of xms as I've never used them.

Without anymore to go on my first guess would be you had some kinda hitchhikers (coral pests) come in with the last batch of corals. Were they QTed. Any signs of AEFWs or things of that ilk? Is it classic STN RTN or what other symptomology are you seeing?

It sounds like a real bummer, but I think you need to give us more to go on to offer suggestions. Params look good. Alk? You need to convert that 400 into dkh or meqs.

Good luck

 

[cootiebugg]

The alk is 11.2 dkh and the meq is actually 4.00 not 400. It doesn't appear as RTN/STN. They start loosing color from inside the coral not the base or tips and don't turn white, more of a yellowish green color and works it's way out. On a 5" green slimer that I had for over a year it took a little over 2 weeks to lose the whole thing. As far as pest, I took an established coral frag that showed good growth that just started to show signs, to a lfs and under a magnfying glass saw no flat worms and 1 redbug. That was a little over 3 wks ago. It didn't make it either. I did 2 treatments for them but the problems continue. Sadly, because of where the new corals came from, I did not qt. and for the 1st time I didn't even dip them

 

[cootiebugg]

As for the bulbs, you might be right. But this has been going on for 6-8 wks. I did get 2 new 13,000K bulbs that I don't really care for the color though and only ran them for about 2 wks while this has been happening.

 

[kirstenk]

Sorry to read about your troubles.

I don't think it could be the bulbs. I have a friend that runs the XM 10K and his lasted well over a year.

 

[Genetics]

Everything looks good. I don't know what corals you have growing in your tank but you might want to think about changing out your bulb. I started having tissue browning on some of my acros and tissue recession on a few other species and couldn't figure out what my problem was. I have similar water parameters as you and decided even though I only had my bulbs for only 6 months I might as well change them out. Seemed to be my problem. HTH.

Side note. If you tried another set of bulbs and that didn't help take a step back and look for something in your tank that you haven't thought of. If you have stonies maybe look to see if you have those red bugs that chew on them or another commonly overlooked thing in reefs are flatworm build up. They're toxic to a tank and alot of ppl don't notice them. There small, brown, and flat.

 

[cootiebugg]

I'm not inclined to think it's the bulbs, but I'll be putting the 13,000k bulbs back in tonight after the lights go out and cool. The only other thing that I've thought about is the crushed coral 3" sand bed but I've tried to stir it up some with every water change to help remove waste. It is mainly a sps tank with the exception of a large frilly mushroom that was a hitchhiker and some star polyps. With about 100lbs. of live rock I've avoided changing the sand bed. The tank has been set up since Feb. 03. FWIW, I've taken a step back so to speak but I'm at the point where I feel I need to do something rather than sit and watch things continue to die. The corals I still have, I've either had for quite awhile or are corals that I waited to aquire to make sure I was able to maintain them. What seems a little odd to me is, I have a 4" efflo and a small soli frag that appear to be extremely good. I waited over a year before I got them and I'd hate to lose them. Not knowing what the problem is though, I can't in good conscience ask anyone to keep any of my corals for me for fear of infecting someone else's tank.

 

[Doubledown]

The greenish color of the dead/dying areas leads me to a phosphate issue (although elevated phosphates typically start to kill corals from the base up). I don't think there is any test kit created for general use that can accurately measure phosphates and if the kit you have is showing any at all you should be concerned. You could use a phosphate removal media, but I caution you to go slow with it (too much too fast can cause bleaching and death worse than you have now).

I assume you are using RODI water for make-up and top-off, what are the TDS readings for it? If they are or have been high it may be something (possibly a metal such as iron - any algae growth in the tank?) coming in. How old is the membrane and what is your replacement schedule for the filters/DI?

Have you tried running a Chem-mat somewhere in the system? If there is something in the water the Chem-mat should pull it out and tell you by color what it is and you can treat it from there.

I have not heard very good things about a crushed coral bed in a reef - too many nooks and cranies for detritus and waste to decay in? If this is the original from '03 it probably should be removed and replaced with aragonite (I like a sandbed, but barebottom is also an option).

Best of luck to you. I have been (and am currently going through) much of the same issues that you speak off and it is very frustrating. Not knowing the cause is the worst.

 

[dirtyreefer]

I don't think it's the bulb either.

What type of skimmer are you running?

 

[cootiebugg]

I'm using a lifereef 24 skimmer and I've been running it wet since my problems began. As for phosphates, I've read that the test kits aren't very accurate as well and using the salifert kit I see the the lightest blue 0.003 through the vial per the instructions but looking at it from the side there is a hint of blue. I haven't run anything to remove phosphates due to the above mentioned reasons. No chem mat either. I'll do some research on both this evening and check the lfs's in the morning. I learned about the draw backs to the CC bed after about a year of having the tank set up. I've always known in the back of my mind I'd have to change it out and everytime I thought about doing it my tank seemed to be doing real well and I was afraid to disturb it. I stir it up before every water change the best I can as well as blow the LR off with a small powerhead. It has been suggested I may have some sort of bacterial problem but I've had no luck on finding a test or treatment if that's the case. I'm not sure of the TDS. I use a 4 stage system and replace all membrane every 6 mos. Jan. 06 was the last time they were changed. The only algae has been an ongoing battle of bubble algae that I thought I had beaten but in the past 7-10 days 2 small clumps have reappeared. I've yet to do anything about it as I'm trying to keep my hands out of the tank with the exception of removing the dead corals

 

[bryanth73]

anyone catch there was one redbug on the sample taken to the lfs ? maybe there is the problem if there is one there are probably many more that haven't been seen

 

[cootiebugg]

I did 2 treatments with inteceptor and took another frag to the lfs yesterday that started showing the same signs after the treatments. There were no signs of bugs. So my dilema continues.

 

[bryanth73]

see if a local reefer has a tds meter check your ro/di I have to replace my carts every 3-4 weeks test tds at the tap and out of ro unit post results. also what kind of fish inverts are in the tank ?

 

[cootiebugg]

I have a purple tang, an attack maroon clown, and a red flame hawk which was my very 1st fish. As for inverts, a large brittle star, cucumber, and approx. 50 snails. A mixture of turbo's. I have several phone #'s to try and get a TDS meter today.

 

[jeffyounggren]

When did you put the carbon in? I am very cautious about the rapid introduction of carbon since it takes so much out of the water so rapidly. I lost a bunch of wonderful acros by not introducing it slowly.

 

[cootiebugg]

I've run carbon, what I would consider passively since I started keeping sps's. I put it in a media bag, in an area of the sump just before the return pump. I just started changing it out weekly since my problems began.

 

[jeffyounggren]

I am really gun shy on carbon and also worry about changing too many things at the same time. I really killed over five-hundred bucks worth of acros learning the carbon lesson, if you will. I am sure now, that my rapid introduction of new carbon into the tank cleaned the water too fast and they died like crazy - bleached out and it kept going for months. Made me sick. I may have diagnosed the problem wrong but could not account for the rapid onset in any other way. The only real good thing about it is that this too shall pass.

 

[cootiebugg]

I've tried not to change much all at the same time except equipment. My sump came with 2 cannisters for force feeding water through them for carbon and phosphate remover and I never hooked them up based on researching both. I'm sure sooner or later I'll be able to turn this around but it's hard to sit and do nothing. As soon as I get the chance, hopefully tonight, I'll post on what I learned about TDS and RO/DI filters today. I'm in the middle of mixing new saltwater for a WC. I'll just say for now it wasn't good. I'm not sure that's the cause of all my problems but it sure hasn't helped.

 

[DaddyJax]

CC can trap gases in the tank along with leaching phosphates. I think that there are more phos in the water than the test kits can read and when you stir up the cc you may be releasing some of the gases that get trapped which can cause lots of damage. Also do you have a grounding wire? Have you ever used copper or any ich medications? Did you buy everything new when you did the setup or was it used?

 

[bryanth73]

passivly carbon should not be a big problem unless you added large amounts and never had it before, same with phosphate media just half dose and step up over a couple weeks all will be ok. One carbon problem is cheap carbon like some of them that come in the cardboard milk containers are high in phosphate and will leach it into the water. Good quality carbon wont do this