Sea Dragons
- Thread starter Chizad
- Start date
found it, never mind..... as follows
I've been doing some researching and found these adorable fish relative to seahorses called seadragons. I would love to keep one in my aquarium! Where can I get one?
You don't. Seadragons are a protected species, so you will need special licensing to obtain them. This type of licensing is only available through research institutes, breeding facilities, and public aquariums/museums.
If by chance you were able to obtain one, getting the licensing to import it would be just the beginning of your problems. They are extremely difficult to keep in captivity. They need to have large aquariums, at least 36 inch high, 72 inch long and 48 inch wide as a bare minimum. You also need to run chillers to keep the temperature at around 60F - not a small task. Feeding would also be a nightmare as they usually only eat live mysis shrimp. They are also startled by sudden changes in light, and their leafy appendages (on both leafy and weedy seadragons) are exremely fragile. If they break, infection almost always occur, usually to the demise of the animal.
There is rumor of some seahorse breeders working with sea dragons. Considering their requirements though, it seems unlikely they'd be readily available to hobbyists.
I've been doing some researching and found these adorable fish relative to seahorses called seadragons. I would love to keep one in my aquarium! Where can I get one?
You don't. Seadragons are a protected species, so you will need special licensing to obtain them. This type of licensing is only available through research institutes, breeding facilities, and public aquariums/museums.
If by chance you were able to obtain one, getting the licensing to import it would be just the beginning of your problems. They are extremely difficult to keep in captivity. They need to have large aquariums, at least 36 inch high, 72 inch long and 48 inch wide as a bare minimum. You also need to run chillers to keep the temperature at around 60F - not a small task. Feeding would also be a nightmare as they usually only eat live mysis shrimp. They are also startled by sudden changes in light, and their leafy appendages (on both leafy and weedy seadragons) are exremely fragile. If they break, infection almost always occur, usually to the demise of the animal.
There is rumor of some seahorse breeders working with sea dragons. Considering their requirements though, it seems unlikely they'd be readily available to hobbyists.
pledosophy
Active member
I wouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. 
Bluetangclan
New member
They are not readily available to hobbyists. generally the only way I have seen them make it to the hobby is through a captive breeder. who had some earmarked for an aquarium which then backed down for who knows why. It suddenly became available to the wait list, which was established for this reason. My LFS who has extrememly good connections, was at the top of the list he had been on for years. He had a customer who mentioned wanting them and called them real quick to see. In the time it took to get it here from Aust. he had set up the tall tank, with chiller and had it ready. I believe the end price tag for the dragon itself was either $7k or $9k, dont remember which. As far as he knows its stull doing fine.
This page from the Australian Governement about Leafy Sea Dragons might be of interest: http://www.deh.gov.au/coasts/publications/marine-fish-action/syngnathidae32.html
And this one talks about the Weedy Sea Dragon: http://www.deh.gov.au/coasts/publications/marine-fish-action/syngnathidae33.html
And this one talks about the Weedy Sea Dragon: http://www.deh.gov.au/coasts/publications/marine-fish-action/syngnathidae33.html
therealw00
Coral Gardener
The way I understand it, Australia allows for the collection of a very small number of pregnant males each year. The company that gets the permit is responsible for captive raising the babies for market which satisfies public aquarium and hobbyist demand. I think the select companies are limited to 1 each and if it is an unsuccessful year then you have to wait till the following year to collect 1 pregnant male again. Leafy sea dragons are fairly rare in the wild, but I think the weedy sea dragons are pretty common in certain areas. Leafy sea dragons do cost about 2K+ and they do need cooler water temperatures. One company that sells them is Blue Corner Japan. I would assume someone willing to dish out the cash for some of these beauties would be able to house them properly and provide the right foods like live mysis.
As of right now I don't believe anybody has captive bred leafy sea dragons, the long beach aquarium of the pacific has come very close.
As of right now I don't believe anybody has captive bred leafy sea dragons, the long beach aquarium of the pacific has come very close.
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RichConley
New member
THey cost a lot more than you guys think. I've seen the public aquarium lists, and theyre paying anywhere from $15K for weedys to $50K for leafys.
Bluetangclan
New member
Wow, I knew they were expensive but they have gone up a ton in the last few years. My well connected LFS sold one a few years back for something near 10k, but thats after his markup, which he deserved for all the work it took to get one in the first place even if it was a lot of luck involved.
mjdlonghorn
New member
"THey cost a lot more than you guys think. I've seen the public aquarium lists, and theyre paying anywhere from $15K for weedys to $50K for leafys."
What are you talking about? Most public aquariums dont look in the yellow pages for their livestock. They lead actual expeditions to personally collect specimens themselves. Maybe they budget that much for the actual operation.
I doubt Australia would allow private companies to make a killing like that off of research institutions. I know that some universities and museums raise funds by letting people pay to participate in those kinds of expeditions.
If you could explain more about this list you've seen that would be helpful. Like at which public facility did you see this and who was it from.
What are you talking about? Most public aquariums dont look in the yellow pages for their livestock. They lead actual expeditions to personally collect specimens themselves. Maybe they budget that much for the actual operation.
I doubt Australia would allow private companies to make a killing like that off of research institutions. I know that some universities and museums raise funds by letting people pay to participate in those kinds of expeditions.
If you could explain more about this list you've seen that would be helpful. Like at which public facility did you see this and who was it from.
therealw00
Coral Gardener
Public aquariums don't go and collect sea dragons in the wild, it is illegal. You'd actually be surprised to know that public aquariums do get a lot of fish via the same dealers that supply hobbyists, at least tropicals. Some aquariums definitely do expeditions, especially for Carribean animals.
There are animal surplus lists shared by accredited zoos and public aquariums, but the small handful of sea dragons I ever saw were in the ball park of 4k, but that was a few years ago. I don't know if that represents the current going price.
There are animal surplus lists shared by accredited zoos and public aquariums, but the small handful of sea dragons I ever saw were in the ball park of 4k, but that was a few years ago. I don't know if that represents the current going price.
cosmopolitician
New member
I think you mean The Birch Aquarium at Scripps in La Jolla. I don't remember any leafy seadragons in Long Beach.
I would love to have one just because they are so beautiful, but 1) I couldn't afford several $1000s, 2) I could never bring myself to do it because I would be so heartbroken if it died.
What I would REALLY REALLY REALLY like to see is captive bred pipefish--that are pre-trained to eat frozen mysis shrimp. I absolutely adore pipefish!
-Anita
mjdlonghorn
New member
You can collect anything with a UN CITES permit. Thats how the zoos get panda bears. If aquariums arent allowed to do their own collection than where do the commercial dealers get their stock?
Not true. CITES regulates international trade. Countries can impose local regulations which prevent or restrict any collection, whatever the CITES classification may be. That is what Australia does with Leafy Seadragons and what the US has done with Caribbean corals. Scientific research may be able to get one of the limited permits to collect these animals.
I was at the Birch Aquarium earlier this month and saw their seadragon display. Very fascinating animals.
therealw00
Coral Gardener
cosmopolitician- The Birch aquarium and Long Beach aquarium each exhibit both species of sea dragons, the long beach even won an award for their work with the weedy sea dragon back in 2002. I hope one day they are as easy to breed and raise as other seahorses.
mjdlonghorn - Last time I checked there were only about 3 zoos exhibiting giant pandas in the US, the us endangered species act and local legislation overrides Cites. You need to comply with them all. Public aquariums can and often do collect their own specimens, but it can be cost prohibitive to do so in many instances. Obviously if you are on the Chesapeake Bay you will collect your own animals, but you may not do an expedition to collect mudskippers in Malaysia because it is much cheaper to purchase them. International shipments can be a pain in the butt too. Also, AZA accredited zoos and aquariums in the US share lists of animals available for loan, trade or purchase which is another way to get animals.
mjdlonghorn - Last time I checked there were only about 3 zoos exhibiting giant pandas in the US, the us endangered species act and local legislation overrides Cites. You need to comply with them all. Public aquariums can and often do collect their own specimens, but it can be cost prohibitive to do so in many instances. Obviously if you are on the Chesapeake Bay you will collect your own animals, but you may not do an expedition to collect mudskippers in Malaysia because it is much cheaper to purchase them. International shipments can be a pain in the butt too. Also, AZA accredited zoos and aquariums in the US share lists of animals available for loan, trade or purchase which is another way to get animals.
Seattle Aquarium has had an exhibit of these sea dragons, but even for SA it is a very difficult operation, and they restrict activity around the tank (no flash photography). They have had them off exhibit for a while and promise to bring them back. I don't think they are for anyone other than the most advanced system...but what they find out about them may make them safer as a species and who knows, maybe someday available to the fancy.
Bluetangclan
New member
While the local aquarium here isnt any great size(its a research facility with what amounts to a small public outreach aquarium), it does have a 100'+ boat they go out in and get alot of their specimens, which are eventually placed on display. I know they go out to Grey's Reef and get stuff like angels and the more common fish. But on the other hand, I also know which retail store they go to as well for other things they would rather not get wild like sharks, he gives them some kind of education discount I believe. As big as he is on making a buck off customers, he is hard core and goes that extra mile to help out educators.
As for the dragon, $4k sounds about right for that time frame for a base price before tacking on the markup.
As for the dragon, $4k sounds about right for that time frame for a base price before tacking on the markup.
cosmopolitician
New member
therealw00-
Oh that's so weird. I go to Long Beach & Birch all the time, they are both within a 1 hour for me. For some reason I just didn't remember that. I do love the Birch aquarium setup though. What bums me out is that they used to have every seahorse species imagineable on display in an entirely spearate room, but they took that all down & they just have the pot bellies, sea dragons & pacific seahorses...oh yeah & the green pipefish too.
You seem to be familiar with Birch...do you remember how nice their old seahorse exhibit was? Do you happen to know why they changed it like that?
-Anita
Oh that's so weird. I go to Long Beach & Birch all the time, they are both within a 1 hour for me. For some reason I just didn't remember that. I do love the Birch aquarium setup though. What bums me out is that they used to have every seahorse species imagineable on display in an entirely spearate room, but they took that all down & they just have the pot bellies, sea dragons & pacific seahorses...oh yeah & the green pipefish too.
You seem to be familiar with Birch...do you remember how nice their old seahorse exhibit was? Do you happen to know why they changed it like that?
-Anita
therealw00
Coral Gardener
Yea! I saw their exhibit on seahorses and it was really cool. Every year or so they change their temporary exhibit hall, and now I believe they have something on genetics and the ocean instead. I haven't seen it yet though...
cosmopolitician
New member
Yeah they do. I was there just a week ago. It not as nice as the seahorse setup, that's for sure. There is little dance machine thing for DNA cells, lol. That was fun. Ohhhh, it's every year. I wonder how many rotations before it's back to seahorses. what part of so cal do you live in?
-ttyl, Anita
-ttyl, Anita
