AdrianBryce
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Is this a bad idea?
SeaChem Flourish for Macro tanks?
- Thread starter AdrianBryce
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Samala
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It's not necessarily a bad idea, but it does go against the precautionary principle we tend to apply when dosing nutrients in marine planted aquariums or to macroalgae setups. Flourish is a pretty comprehensive fertilizer supplying NPK, all the micronutrients, and even iron and a very tiny bit of copper sulfate.
Because of the presence of copper sulfate (although in a miniscule amount) and iron (as ferrous gluconate, but in a more considerable portion per dose) it's not really a "good" idea to attempt Flourish in marine setups until we know more about how these two compounds effect invertebrates that may also be present in the system. I'm not necessarily afraid to dose such things into my aquaria.. but I'm not keeping prized and valuable snails, corals, or other invertebrates!
In addition, Flourish offers up a bit of phosphate, which also sends up red flags for most marine setups.
Instead of Flourish as a whole fertilizer treatment, I would encourage you to consider their fertilizers that are more broken down components like Seachem Flourish Nitrogen, which is almost entirely KNO3. I happen to use and like Kent's Botanica Nitro+.. but I am not sure if they are still making it or not.
For those people on the board perusing that are not familiar with Seachem Flourish. It's designed typically for freshwater planted aquariums at the intermediate level.
>Sarah
Because of the presence of copper sulfate (although in a miniscule amount) and iron (as ferrous gluconate, but in a more considerable portion per dose) it's not really a "good" idea to attempt Flourish in marine setups until we know more about how these two compounds effect invertebrates that may also be present in the system. I'm not necessarily afraid to dose such things into my aquaria.. but I'm not keeping prized and valuable snails, corals, or other invertebrates!
In addition, Flourish offers up a bit of phosphate, which also sends up red flags for most marine setups.
Instead of Flourish as a whole fertilizer treatment, I would encourage you to consider their fertilizers that are more broken down components like Seachem Flourish Nitrogen, which is almost entirely KNO3. I happen to use and like Kent's Botanica Nitro+.. but I am not sure if they are still making it or not.
For those people on the board perusing that are not familiar with Seachem Flourish. It's designed typically for freshwater planted aquariums at the intermediate level.
>Sarah
AdrianBryce
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Thanks for the input. I will look into the separate products.
phobos2deimos
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This is a super old thread, but I bit the bullet and started dosing Flourish Excel and Flourish (trace) today. I have an RBTA, tons of macros, mangroves, typical CUC, and (had/will have again) decorative crabs and shrimp.
Upon a capful of trace and four capfuls of Excel (less than directions state for initial dose) my RBTA and few softie/LPS frags are absolutely ****ed and I'm wondering which of the two ****ed them off.
I do dose KNO3, Kent Iron Maganese, KH2PO4 at the moment with great results, but my lack of water changes (I think) have led to stagnant growth in some macros and I suspect trace to be the issue as I never do water changes.
Upon a capful of trace and four capfuls of Excel (less than directions state for initial dose) my RBTA and few softie/LPS frags are absolutely ****ed and I'm wondering which of the two ****ed them off.
I do dose KNO3, Kent Iron Maganese, KH2PO4 at the moment with great results, but my lack of water changes (I think) have led to stagnant growth in some macros and I suspect trace to be the issue as I never do water changes.
saltwater sam
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Check for copper on the ingredients list.
saltwater sam
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I would say this was probably your issue.
phobos2deimos
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Oh, it's definitely got copper, I'll have to do a copper test after I find my kit... I've got copper in my root tabs too, though, and those occasionally get stirred up.
I know the macros will absorb copper way fast, but it probably would be much better to dose slowly throughout the day. I'll port back as things settle and I can run a test.
I know the macros will absorb copper way fast, but it probably would be much better to dose slowly throughout the day. I'll port back as things settle and I can run a test.
saltwater sam
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CO2 injection is at best completely unnecessary, at worst detrimental to your system.
Why do you say that, Sam?
saltwater sam
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Because the water chemistry, notably the pH, is very different in freshwater planted tanks vs. saltwater. In the FWPT you opt for low pH (acidic), which injection of CO2 (carbonic acid) helps maintain. In SW, you try to maintain a higher pH (alkaline) which is buffered/maintained with compounds such as calcium and magnesium. If you start injecting carbonic acid into your system, you potentially are throwing off your chemistry by lowering your pH which will also reduce free calcium from the water.
Besides all that, algae don't have the same CO2 demands as FW plants, and it would be basically pointless to supplement something that isn't in short supply. Look at any of the amazing macro tanks in this forum and you'll see it's not needed for healthy macros.
Besides all that, algae don't have the same CO2 demands as FW plants, and it would be basically pointless to supplement something that isn't in short supply. Look at any of the amazing macro tanks in this forum and you'll see it's not needed for healthy macros.
Sam, you've got a beautiful mangrove/macro tank, so I yield to your experience. However, I'm no expert, but I think some of what you said above is incorrect. I don't mean to be the knowledge police, I just wanted to clarify or correct a few points.
CO2 is not used in FWPTs to keep pH low, it's used as a carbon source for otherwise carbon-limited plants.
CO2 is used with calcium reactors, which boosts calcium, not reduce it. It can, over time cause pH to drift lower, so some combine it with Kalkwasser. Effectively, every reefer out there using a calcium reactor is also dosing CO2. The acidity basically dissolves calcium in substrates, making it available to corals, plants, shrimp, etc.
Carbon IS in short supply in most tanks. Carbon dosing addresses this.
As you say, it's not needed for healthy macros, but I bet they would benefit from it. Having said that, would I recommend folks go buy CO2 setups for macros? No, but if you've already got the components (from a calcium reactor or freshwater plant setup), why not give it a try?
The tricky part, I think, is whether it might bother other more sensitive (and expensive) organisms in our tanks, or would it favor micros over macros.
I have used CO2 with success with my seagrasses. I have no idea whether it helps with macros, but it seems likely to me.
CO2 is not used in FWPTs to keep pH low, it's used as a carbon source for otherwise carbon-limited plants.
CO2 is used with calcium reactors, which boosts calcium, not reduce it. It can, over time cause pH to drift lower, so some combine it with Kalkwasser. Effectively, every reefer out there using a calcium reactor is also dosing CO2. The acidity basically dissolves calcium in substrates, making it available to corals, plants, shrimp, etc.
Carbon IS in short supply in most tanks. Carbon dosing addresses this.
As you say, it's not needed for healthy macros, but I bet they would benefit from it. Having said that, would I recommend folks go buy CO2 setups for macros? No, but if you've already got the components (from a calcium reactor or freshwater plant setup), why not give it a try?
The tricky part, I think, is whether it might bother other more sensitive (and expensive) organisms in our tanks, or would it favor micros over macros.
I have used CO2 with success with my seagrasses. I have no idea whether it helps with macros, but it seems likely to me.
saltwater sam
New member
I'm not saying that they dose CO2 for it's pH effects, I realize it's for the nutrition of the plants, however, using CO2 dissolved in water forms an acid and undoubtedly lowers pH. CO2 injection as a carbon source is not the best solution, as there are other carbon sources available for SW. Seagrasses are a little different than macros, so I could see why they may benefit, but I'd have to ask if you've tested calcium and pH levels in conjunction with your CO2 injection?
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