Secrets on seating bulkheads????

[jlinzmaier]

I'm in the middle of a 420 gal DT build and soon I'll be ready to get the bulkheads set in place. Other than cleaning the rubber gasket and the surface it sits on, are there any other tips, tricks, or ideas for getting the bulkheads put in place for maximum seal and longevity.

I have sched 80 bulkheads and there will be a total of ten 1.5 inch bulkheads in the bottom of my tank.

Thanks.

Jeremy

 

[flyyyguy]

I assume you know the gasket goes opposite tank side of the nut

besides that just slightly firm finger tight. If it happens to leak following those directions, tighten it a little bit more and it WILL stop unless the gasket or flange is possibly compromised

 

[Jar*Head]

There is no trick really, even i can do it . Just like you mentioned above. Make sure the gasket is clean as well as the glass surface. I would use the silicone lubrication for maximum seal and long lasting... BTW sch . 80 is a great choice...

 

[jlinzmaier]

Thanks guys!! Just wanted to be sure there weren't any trade secrets I wasn't aware of.

Jeremy

 

[reefconcepts]

Just my 2¢. I have always put a thin layer of silicone aquarium sealer on both sides of the gasket. Once the bulkhead is installed I run a bead of the sealant over the edge bulkhead and spreading it onto the surface of the glass. This is just a little extra insurance as the gasket is never exposed to salt water. Maybe not necessary, just what I have always done.

 

[flyyyguy]

If by silicone you mean the stuff that the aquarium is built with and not the lubricant, you do not ever want to do this and it is not how they are designed to work, the silicone lubricant jarhead mentioned is another deal

It cant always nor even usually happen, but if you use silicone on the gasket, and then it gets turned, the seal can fail and will not be water tight again until either salt creep seals it or you replace it. The gasket is built how it is for a reason

the exception to this is if the gasket or flange is compromised and the bulkhead simply wont seal......then you use the silicone to help deal with the warpage or damaged parts, but try not to ever turn it once sealed

 

[uhuru]

I use a dab of silicone lube on the gasket and hand tighten, like jarhead.

 

[Matt_Wandell]

You are asking for a disaster Swiss cheesing your bottom glass like that.

 

[flyyyguy]

not necessarily

I certainly wouldnt say that without knowing how the tank is built

 

[reefconcepts]

flyyyguy Again, it is my 2¢... Yes I am speaking about the silicone that tanks are built with. You say "It cant always nor even usually happen, but if you use silicone on the gasket, and then it gets turned, the seal can fail and will not be water tight again until either salt creep seals it or you replace it. The gasket is built how it is for a reason" I am not sure how the bulkhead will get "turned" once installed. The silicone is just extra insurance and I was just passing it along. All have two choices, do it or don't. Not sure what the silicone lubricant will do but allow the bulkhead to spin in the tank on instillation, making the installation more difficult.

 

[flyyyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15026573#post15026573 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefconcepts
flyyyguy Again, it is my 2¢... ..The silicone is just extra insurance and I was just passing it along. All have two choices, do it or don't. .

understood.

I was just clarifying for any one who may not know that how you do it, is not how they were designed and doing it that way isnt insurance, its misuse

is it a big deal?? not even, but if you keep doing it that way and build enough systems you will sooner or later have a issue, albeit usually not too big of one unless you plumb in such a way that the bulkhead needs cut off instead of in such a way that it can easily be removed and the gasket replaced. Unless of course we are talking about a bulkhead low in the tank.........then we are talking about a potential nightmare of having to empty the tank.

Reseating a bulkhead can be easily done underwater if the gasket works as it should, without a layer of harder silicone that has already been molded to whatever shape it took

I wont deny I used to use extra silicone on bulkheads myself when I didnt know any better

 

[teesquare]

flyyguy:

Not to labor the point further - but I have installed custom tanks up to 6500 gallons, nad NEVER had a leak ( Knock on my head <G>) in 20 plus years of plumbing systems.
My proceedure follows what Reef Concepts recommended. I think the reason it works so well is:

1. The beads of Silicone sealant are rather "sticky", and help to hold the assembly better than silicone grease for tightening by hand.
2.The "wipe" of silicone around the flange of the bulkhead is a second seal. Assuring it will not leak, nor will it twist, once set up. Thus it is LESS likely to be accidentally turned than if silicone lube is used .

Not sure I understand your thinking that one would have to cut -off a bulkhead if silicone sealant was used....?
In any case if a bulkhead cannot be snugged up - the tank will have to be drained anyway - whether it has to be cut off or not. (Though I have never had to cut one off to to remove it.)

The last aspect of this is that no one have shown me that the silicone grease and the typical rubber gasket used for bulkheads are compatible. I have seen cases where well intentioned folks used a lubricant on a rubber part - only to notice that the rubber part would soften and swell, losing it's designed "durometer" (or degree of softness/firmness). Additionally, though it is food grade...should we be using silicone grease in our tanks? I would not use Pam cooking spray, or Dawn dishwashing liquid - and they are "food grade".
The difference in logic here is that we must all remember there are countless species of bacteria and other micro fauna which can break down even many synthetic materials -including many rubber compounds.
Cheers-
T

 

[jlinzmaier]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15026459#post15026459 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Matt_Wandell
You are asking for a disaster Swiss cheesing your bottom glass like that.

How so???? Many tanks are built in such a way without trouble. Explain further, I'd like to hear your input.

Jeremy

 

[flyyyguy]

silicone away and when the very infrequent event happens when you go to upgrade or change something, and you need to twist the bulkhead for some reason to fit yoru new plumbing or equipment in, and becasue you used silicone, you cannot get that bulkhead that is low in the tank to ever seal again and you have to empty the tank, please do not forget to pm me so I can laugh at you and say,

"I told you doing things that benefit nothing that have uncommon, yet possible downsides shouldnt be done".


I have wasted enough breath on this boring topic already

-cheers

 

[teesquare]

I guess we just see the world a little different flyyguy..
I would not gloat at your mis-fortune, as that that would intimate that I was being a "know it all", and maybe even childish. I just don't see the joy in that.
But I will tell you tha if you plan well, and put bulkheads in right - AND if you know that you should NEVER rely on "twisting" them, you will most assuredly NOT have a problem.

At least - not in 20 years, and somewhere north of 1000 tanks drilled, and bulkheads installed.

That has been my experience - not my scare tactic, my experience.

T

 

[flyyyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15028077#post15028077 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by teesquare

I would not gloat at your mis-fortune, as that that would intimate that I was being a "know it all", and maybe even childish. I just don't see the joy in that.
But I will tell you tha if you plan well, and put bulkheads in right - AND if you know that you should NEVER rely on "twisting" them, you will most assuredly NOT have a problem.

At least - not in 20 years, and somewhere north of 1000 tanks drilled, and bulkheads installed.

That has been my experience - not my scare tactic, my experience.

T

touche

that was childish of me. I admit it. I really didnt mean I would like to see your misfortune, Its hot out and its kind of a boring topic and it just came out. :lol: So since we (me)are acting like adults again let me ask you this in concern to the following that you said:


quote: AND if you know that you should NEVER rely on "twisting" them, you will most assuredly NOT have a problem.


Why would one want to intentionally do something that is not beneficial, yet could create a situation that a desired plumbing tweak, or possible equipment upgrade, or a tank move could be done as easily as it could be if you didnt do that unecessary step of using silicone so that the bulkhead cant be twisted a different angle in the future to help in the upgrade without possibly having to replace it becasue you chose to use the silicone??

Ive laid some pipe and fittings in my day as well, most of which not hobby related, and most of which using much different bulkheads designed for much higher pressure, and it simply doesnt make sense IMO nor would I ever recommend it. Nor would the designers and manufacturers of any of the bulkheads recommend it.


-cheers

 

[teesquare]

Glad to see you returned to the thread -
To quote:

Why would one want to intentionally do something that is not beneficial, (ONE OPINION - but not mine OR MANY OTHER AQUARIUM PROFESSIONALS )yet could create a situation that a desired plumbing tweak,(plan better) or possible equipment upgrade, or a tank move could be done as easily as it could be if you didnt do that unecessary step of using silicone so that the bulkhead cant be twisted a different angle in the future to help in the upgrade without possibly having to replace it becasue you chose to use the silicone?? ( *if* BY PLANNING BETTER YOU INSTALL UNIONS - YOU WILL BE ABLE TO ACCOMODATE ALL OF THE ABOVE) Additionally - I will repeate myself - you CAN remove bulkheads which have been siliconed.

Again - you seem to feel that there is only one way (YOURS).... While many of us have made our living installing tanks- which means that we CANNOT afford the liability of doing anything half - baked.....
Why did you not consider the concern for the use of silicone GREASE in the aquatic/bilogically active environment? I would like to hear the explanation on this.
T

 

[flyyyguy]

I dont use grease personally. But not necessarily against it as it doesnt alter the way the bulkhead gasket is designed to work now, and if it ever needs removed. Again, call any designer or manufacturer of bulkheads and they will tell you the same thing.

I do actually use silicone on the bulkheads, but it is so I can control how much I want to thread a tapered fitting into it without worrying about the seal.

as far as planning better. That isnt the point. Its all about flexibility and it does surprise me that anyone who has plumbed as many tanks as you doesnt agree.

anyway, have a good one.

we will agree to disagree

-cheers

 

[teesquare]

Last first:
Perhaps we determine flexability differently. But I plan that into the tank design, hole locations, and extra things that may not be needed now - but as the tank/hobbyist progresses - are available to be utilized as desired.
I do not believe in relying on twisting, yanking, or torqueing on bulkheads. Period.
As for manufacturers and their advisements about their products... Let's put this in prespective: Even some of the major manufacturers of aquariums clearly state that if you modify their stand in ANY way - that the warranty on the stand - AND tank may be void!!!!
So - when I drill one hole for a bulkhead - and the corresponding hole in the stand - I am on my own - right?
It is the same thing with bulkheads and their manufacturers. Warranties are based on the minimum of controllable circumstances. Anything beyond that falls outside of the manufacturers liability/responsibility. EVEN if it is an improvement over the stock product.
And - not to pick on you but go back to your earlier posts for a moment... You really disparaged the methods I use, in favor of silicone grease - and stated NOT to use silicone...
And in your last post you say that you do not even use grease??? And that you do use silicone sealant???
Don't you think that sort of evaporates the credibility of your strong postion against the method that I use?
And - for the THIRD time - you CAN remove siliconed bulkheads...
But - If you need to remove ANY bulkheads for any reasons - the tank is empty - right? So.......what's your point again, as I am "an old fart", and I seem to get confused easily
T

 

[flyyyguy]

no i said I use silicone for the pvc fitting and it has nothing to do with the bulkhead seal in any way, shouldnt have said it as it did confuse you. did i ever say tweak?? I said twist to a different angle for flexibility of changing or moving anything down the road, adding a union doesnt change anything in concern to the angle it is coming off of the tank

geesh. this is a stupid conversation. go plumb your thousands of systems, and use your silicone if you think you need it. You could actually maybe make some spare money on the side by selling people those hundreds of thousands of gaskets you dont need in the first place, as the silicone will seal it on its own, and the gasket is just a waste of material that I guess the manufacturers shouldnt include in the first place.

happy reefing. im out, should have been 4 posts ago

-cheers