Seeking Advice- First Saltwater Tank

[thelawnwrangler]

I have a novel coming if anyone sees a questions with in this book they want to answer I appreciate the advice. If there is a book or thread you want to direct me too that is appreciated too ( I am reading most of the helpful threads on my own)

Background:
I have always wanted a saltwater tank. I have loved fish forever. I started at 9 with a 10 gallon and a molly, and keep fresh through college. After college I moved around and never really established a tank. Now at 36 I am ready for my first saltwater tank, and I am trying to find the right price point, and the best setup to ensure success and enjoyment in the hobby. The thought would be to start with FOWLR and then as I got confident move to easy coral. I don't imagine harder coral will ever intrigue me, because I couldn't imagine a $200 coral not flourishing (not a fun challenge in my mind). Budget is $1,000 which means start there and don't be shocked when I am $2,000 down lol

My Goal:
Clown (wanted Maroon but not sure that is in the cards), easy coral (6 months down the road if ever), cleaner crew, and fish that go along with the above items to complete tank. Tanks size something 55 gallons or under makes sense bc I don't want big fish, and I can't afford a ton of coral. Maybe I graduate to a glorious big beautiful tank one day, but here I want big enough that I can keep water para right, and small enough to be manageable limit exposure to screwing up.
Question: Clown and coral are the goal thoughts on what goes nice with that?

The Planned Tank (Opinions requested):

A. 29 Gallon Tank, live rock live sand, Hang on Protein Skimmer, Led Lights, and Hang on Filter (or cannister?), heater, power head, and ?
Key questions:
A1- filter hang on canister? I like the idea of cost savings with hang on, prefer the look of canister although will have to have hang on skimmer so whats the point (unsure how much better filtration is?).
A2- Live Rock do I need to pony up or should I mix dry and live?

B. Fluval M90 or M60 tank - I love the look and that is mostly self contained. also LFS it comes with LED, protein skimmer, filteration is built in.
B1. Am I taking a hit on filtration with the attractiveness of self contained?
B2. Live Rock vs Dry rock mix?
b3. What does the ideal setup look like- the sponge filter stuff?, protein skimmer, and?

C. go bigger and tell the wife to deal- 55-75 gallon tank. 1 it would be awesome. Set up I assume would be a sump, with protein skimmer in bottom to do the filtration, Led lighting, and power head.
C1. I really would need to save money on live rock cost so I would hope I get the blessing live and dry rock mix with the thought of letting the FOWLR tank mature prior to coral.

D. Some other great suggestions for the minds here.


Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Bogue Chitto]

I would go with the larger tank as you can't put as many fish in marine tanks as in freshwater tanks. Take it slow and you will be o.k. Get the tank up and running and get some base rock and an ammonia source and let it start cycling. That will give you time to decide on what kind of light you want or need and then add other equipment as needed. It will go through an ugly diatom bloom and you may want to wait until that is about over before adding live rock as it will get covered too. IMO it will stay a little cleaner put in after the diatoms die out. You will get some diatoms on most anything you add new but in my experience it is much less than the initial star up. Feel free to ask questions. There are a lot of guys with great input here that know a lot more than I do. I wish you well with your new adventure.

 

[dweber618]

I've only been in the hobby for about a year - but figured I could give you my two cents.

Seems like it's pretty typical for people to want to upgrade to bigger tanks - so if you could get away with starting bigger, go for it. Also bigger tanks are easier to control parameters in. I don't see any reason why you should fork over the cost for live rock. You should cycle the tank anyways - so starting with dry rock to save some $$ would be perfectly fine. Also - maybe with black Friday coming up there will be some good deals on dry rock? I just recently upgraded to a 100 gallon from a 36 gallon. The 36 gallon had a HOB filter, and no skimmer. I had a couple of fish, and some soft corals and everything did fine for the short period of time they were in there. So it's definitely doable to run a simple system with no sump. When I upgraded I chose to buy a system with a sump, and I'm glad I did. Much quieter, and cleaner looking - it also adds additional water volume to your system.

I don't have any experience with the Fluval aquariums - so I can't speak to that. CADLights has gotten a bad rap on here recently, but that was the tank I chose to upgrade to. They have some nice all-in-one set ups that include the tank, stand, sump, built in overflow, and plumbing. This leaves you room to choose your own lighting, as well as your own protein skimmer allowing you to have more flexibility with upgrading and changing things out. I'm really happy with my CADLights aquarium so far, I ordered it through Marine Depot and it arrived with in a couple of weeks. Never having plumbed or ran a sump before this made it much easier for me to transition since everything I needed was included (albeit the instructions sucked and it took my husband and I several hours to get it all put together).

If you haven't already - look into purchasing and RO/DI unit. I would say it's definitely a must-have for this hobby. Tap water is asking for trouble and buying water would get costly pretty quickly.

I believe Maroon clowns are some of the most aggressive clowns - so use caution with that. If you do get it, add it to the tank last so other more docile fish have time to get established. There are some soft corals that are easy to care for - I have some pulsing Xenia coral that I love - super cool to look at and has been a really easy keeper (and it grows fast!). I also have some green button polyps which I really love (and I think they could survive almost anything). Mine survived in a tank with ridiculously high nitrates before I got them - then survived total lights out for about 4 months. Somehow they hung on and are doing great!

It doesn't sound like you want to run a nano tank - so I think if you could convince your wife to go for the additional cost and run a bigger tank with a sump you would enjoy the flexibility it brings.

Welcome, good luck, and have fun! :fish1::fish1::fish1::dance:

 

[CStrickland]

If you haven't found this thread, it's a great place to start: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

If I was going to set up my first tank today, I'd do this
- rodi: spectrapure 90gpd refurbished $150 incl shipping

- 40 breeder tank $40
Cheap, great dimensions for arranging rocks and coral/room to swim, decent stocking options. 55s are tough, I have one and it's too tall and narrow

- back of tank drilled for a beananimal overflow to a ~30g sump $50
http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx
It's a lot easier than it sounds and the peace of mind that comes with a basically silent and flood proof system is totes worth it

- rocket engineer diy stand $20
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1169964
Cheap, sturdy, customizable and battle tested

- filtration in sump: $200
Skimmer and a place to use a filter sick as desired. Your rocks do the heavy lifting to clean the water by giving bacteria a place to populate, the socks can grab bigger chunks if you kick up a pile of crud and are great for pulling sand dust and diatoms out in the beginning.

- eBay Chinese LEDs
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2474870
Plenty of light for all but the most demanding coral at a much lower price point than any comparable option. Miles ahead of what you will find on an all in one system

- dry rock
Live rock isn't a bad place to spend extra money after you get a rodi, lights and skimmer. But it's not a necessity like they are. Reefcleaners has dry rock for $2 a pound free shipping. That's a significant difference in start up cost.

- nix the canister, they are for freshwater tanks

- you can use cheap water test kits during the cycle, but as you get more comfortable using them and need to test less frequently, plan to move into a better range like salifert etc. You'll want to be able to track ammonia, nitrates, alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, salinity and temperature with reasonable accuracy.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Reef Frog]

I don't believe the Fluval tanks come with typical reef capable lighting. You may want to look into that. There are lots of sleek looking all in one reef tanks (AIO) that may fit your needs, and you can avoid all the HOB gear. A system with a sump under the cabinet offers the most flexibility though.

Also, you won't need to spend $200 on a coral. A great reef tank can be built on much less expensive coral frags.

 

[thelawnwrangler]

I don't believe the Fluval tanks come with typical reef capable lighting. You may want to look into that. There are lots of sleek looking all in one reef tanks (AIO) that may fit your needs, and you can avoid all the HOB gear. A system with a sump under the cabinet offers the most flexibility though.

Also, you won't need to spend $200 on a coral. A great reef tank can be built on much less expensive coral frags.

Thanks all for the feedback I will be reading it all.

The LFS said the lighting would be sufficient for what I wanted coral wise. How do I learn more about what the light produces vs what I need? I am complete novice in that area. I will search the forum as well.

I like the idea of frags and just growing things out is that realistic for me? I am assuming if I can't get tank conditions to grow a frag that I would be killing a more develop coral so might be right where I need to?

 

[thelawnwrangler]

PS the finish look has as much about the wife agreeing for this to be part of the living room as anything else for me lol

A lot of solid points for something big enough to have a sump under it.

I think the longest I can go is about 4 foot. I saw a marineland 75 gallon that might fit what I want. tank was (18"L x 48"W x 21"H)

I am having a lot of trouble navigating what depth is okay and what is too deep. Keep in mind if I ever do make it to coral I am not going to take on anything too hard. So I guess I need to read up on coral see what I want and what lights give them what they need?

 

[uncleL]

I would go with a 90G and check craigslist for good deals save some $$$$ Take a look at my album of my 90g

 

[gigamanx]

Throwing my two cents in since I have a lot of the equipment you're talking about and have had 3yrs of success with all but a few hard coral specimens. My setup: 55 gallon with HOB protein skimmer doing the heavy lifting. I have a saltwater canister filter that sits underneath and is quite small. The canister has foam, egg crate, and small bits of liverock as filtration. Lots of anaerobic sludge build up in the bottom and filters great. I really have had no issues with the tank. I wouldn't want to go any smaller for a couple of reasons. One was already mentioned, that the levels can get out of whack quickly on smaller tank sizes. The second is keeping up with water topoff at about 3-5g per week.

My successful corals are a hammertip coral and a whisker coral. Both have grown very well over the last few years and I probably paid $25 a piece on the frag. My christmas tree coral has been very very slow in growing and I think that has a lot to do with placement and lighting choices.

You mentioned water depth and this comes down to preference. I like to be able to reach my hand in and touch the bottom of the tank. So I'd say the limit is where you can't grab something off the bottom Lighting for the 55g tank I have two 36" T8 fixtures with a 10K light in one and one with an actinic bulb. Seems to keep the fish happy.

Oh, fish....two ocellaris clowns (purchased as juveniles), a 6 line wrasse, two cardinalfish, and a yellow tang. All are happy together and found their own spaces. The clown fish are by far my favorite because they are very interactive and curious of me when I'm working on the tank or just observing.

Good luck!

 

[thelawnwrangler]

So wife didn't like the look of the Fluval I am thinking 75 gallon reef is the answer which she seem open to.


LFS guy was probably tired of the mind rape or just late in day was not super helpful. Said I could go drilled or un drilled. I am assuming I would go drilled but sure I understand the complete implication. How does undrill flow to sump or do you go no sump with that?

Assuming I will buy pre made sump but will check diy

 

[Deftones2015]

So wife didn't like the look of the Fluval I am thinking 75 gallon reef is the answer which she seem open to.


LFS guy was probably tired of the mind rape or just late in day was not super helpful. Said I could go drilled or un drilled. I am assuming I would go drilled but sure I understand the complete implication. How does undrill flow to sump or do you go no sump with that?

Assuming I will buy pre made sump but will check diy

If you don't drill you would have to buy a hang on overflow box. Something like this.
http://www.marinedepot.com/CPR_CS20...or_Aquariums-CPR-CR1511-FIOFEB-CR1518-vi.html

I had a 75 for a few years and loved it. I do recommend drilling though, the hang one can lose syphon in the u-tube and cause your tank to overflow.

 

[thelawnwrangler]

If you don't drill you would have to buy a hang on overflow box. Something like this.
http://www.marinedepot.com/CPR_CS20...or_Aquariums-CPR-CR1511-FIOFEB-CR1518-vi.html

I had a 75 for a few years and loved it. I do recommend drilling though, the hang one can lose syphon in the u-tube and cause your tank to overflow.

thanks - yeah drilled seems cleaner.

any thoughts on pre made sump vs homemade?

I think premade with appropriate flow rates sounds better

 

[thelawnwrangler]

reading beginner guide sounds like 75 might be an easier start point

 

[thelawnwrangler]

Also anybody here paint the back of their tank? I will search forum as well.

 

[Aframomum]

Most paint the back of the tank either black or blue colors. Can use simple spray paint, nothing special. Use multiple light coats so may want to get something that dries quickly. If your drilling your tank, do that before painting.

Also, patience is very important in this hobby. Don't go too quickly and you'll be fine.

Good idea to skip the 29, very bad dimensions for aquascaping. The 75 will be nice and if you have any handy skills you can check out the DIY section to see about making your own stand and how to drill your tank and install a sump. Plus a lot more stuff you'll learn as you progress.

 

[thelawnwrangler]

Most paint the back of the tank either black or blue colors. Can use simple spray paint, nothing special. Use multiple light coats so may want to get something that dries quickly. If your drilling your tank, do that before painting.

Also, patience is very important in this hobby. Don't go too quickly and you'll be fine.

Good idea to skip the 29, very bad dimensions for aquascaping. The 75 will be nice and if you have any handy skills you can check out the DIY section to see about making your own stand and how to drill your tank and install a sump. Plus a lot more stuff you'll learn as you progress.

thanks for the advice. I am reading about quarantine tanks a little overwhelming. I am nervous about running my first tank and now it sounds I need to have a second one going. Will read more.

I would guess like a flat black would look good. Just nerve racking to buy a tank and take a spray can to it lol. Once I buy I am think I get with the pre made stand so the wife will approve.