Serious RO/DI question?

[BeanAnimal]

Refgarding problems withe the "ebay" units....

I already listed them

1) Inferior membrane
A) 90% rejection as opposed to DOW FILMTEC 98%
B) 70 PSI recomended operating pressure as opposed to DOW 50 PSI

2) Inferior resin setup
A) Horizontal resin allows settling, this allows water to flow OVER the bed of resin and bypass it.
B) Horizontal resin does not promote a tight pack and allows the flow to cut channels throug it.

We can list about a half dozen other problemsm, but those are enough right there.

You are living breathing proof of our point. You have a TDS of 8, when it should be 0. You have used up a resin cartridge, when those of us with better units and similar input TDS would still be on the same one. You have asked for help, but turn a blind eye and deaf ear to those that have the real answer.

When you truley want to resolve your problem and save some money, please let me (or somebody else that understands how these units work) help you. I would be more than happy to ehlp you get the most out of the equipment you have with a few simple suggestions on upgrades.

 

[bbragg]

As noted previously, you probably just needed to flush the membrane. Many are rolled with a preservative in the membrane that needs to be flushed. I usually make 7 or 8 gals before I let the RO dump into the tank. At that point, my input is 235ppm city water and my output is usually about 5ppm.

Also noted, there were some "not true RO" membranes that were 75 or 100gpd. I can't recall the type. I usually stick with 35 or 50 gpd units and run a flush for 10 minutes about 4 times a year. I get pretty good life that way ... plus I use the 1 micron string and 1/2 micron carbon in front if the membrane. That probably helps.

It's a good practice to test your output every once in a while. I've got my RO/DI on a Neptune controller with a float switch. The automation caused me to slack off and one day I noticed a bit of hair algae. My RO died, sucked up all the life in my DI and was basically dumping phosphate laden city water into my tank. I stuck my TDS meter into the stream and it said 580ppm. I nearly passed out. I thought for a minute that I had accidentally put the waste water into the sump.

And, I have seen channeling in horizontal DI. Not good. I would definitely go vertical if at all possible ... as mentioned by the last poster.

My experience may not be typical though. I haven't changed my water in 3 years so I only do evaporative top-off.

 

[sjm817]

*Bean*
Not to hijack this thread, but I could use some help.
I posted this thread about replacement filters for my Filterdirect unit. I dont want to scrap the whole thing, but replace all the filters to bring it up to snuff. Specific information on parts would be much appreciated.

If you would rather reply to my thread, or reply here, I would appreciate the advice.

TIA

 

[nikonosis]

are you in marketing for those companies? i understand everything you saying but at the same time I had zero ppm at one point and there are tons of people on ebay that get zero ppm with the ebay units. On melevs site he says anything under 10 ppm is good. Ive seen people with the airwaterice units that don't get zero ppm. I can buy a down filmtec membrane and put it in the unit if i want. I really didn't want to know if i needed a different rodi, i just wanted to know why I was getting 200+ ppm and the problem was answered. The system just needed to run the chemicals out of the new filters i purchased. I do appreciate the help and suggestion though but im really not into spending more money right now on this.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6987505#post6987505 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Refgarding problems withe the "ebay" units....

I already listed them

1) Inferior membrane
A) 90% rejection as opposed to DOW FILMTEC 98%
B) 70 PSI recomended operating pressure as opposed to DOW 50 PSI

2) Inferior resin setup
A) Horizontal resin allows settling, this allows water to flow OVER the bed of resin and bypass it.
B) Horizontal resin does not promote a tight pack and allows the flow to cut channels throug it.

We can list about a half dozen other problemsm, but those are enough right there.

You are living breathing proof of our point. You have a TDS of 8, when it should be 0. You have used up a resin cartridge, when those of us with better units and similar input TDS would still be on the same one. You have asked for help, but turn a blind eye and deaf ear to those that have the real answer.

When you truley want to resolve your problem and save some money, please let me (or somebody else that understands how these units work) help you. I would be more than happy to ehlp you get the most out of the equipment you have with a few simple suggestions on upgrades.

 

[frank2926]

You did NOT get a new Ro membrane....correct?

Then their is nothing to flush out of a new sediment and carbon block....well I maybe their is from made in taiwan filters off ebay.

I hear Deltec is making an RO unit just for you.

 

[nikonosis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6988912#post6988912 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by frank2926
You did NOT get a new Ro membrane....correct?

Then their is nothing to flush out of a new sediment and carbon block....well I maybe their is from made in taiwan filters off ebay.

I hear Deltec is making an RO unit just for you.

sounds good:rolleye1:

 

[BeanAnimal]

NO I have nothing to do with any of these companies.

You asked a question and I gave an answer. It does not matter what TDS Melev says is acceptable (he may even be correct, but the acutal number is moot with regards to the point being made here and is really a personal comfort level.). A properly working RO/DI unit will have 0 TDS output, not 8. The reason that the output of your unit is 8 and not 0 are due to the reasons listed above.

The major point to take away from this is rather simple: Lets leave the memrane and it's efficiency out of the equation.

If your resin was working properly, it would take care of what the membrane missed, it is that simple.

The other points were more directed to the cost of operation (poor rejection membrane = more resin usage, and higher rated op pressure = more substantialy more waste water).

You want to monitor the TDS of th RO water to determine how well the membrane is working. As stated, you do need to flush a new membrane due to the oils used to preserve it during it's shelf life.

Bean

 

[frank2926]

I didn't get a new RO membrane because I heard they last for a year but going from 8ppm to 42 to 300, something seems weird.

He did not replace his membrane. So he is just another example of the good ole ebay unit

 

[BeanAnimal]

Without knowing the TDS of hte RO water, it is hard to say exactly what problems he was having. However it sounds like either a bad post filter (after the DI) or the Membrane is shot, and the DI is exhausted, or bypassing a LOT of stuff.

The first thing I woul do would be to check the RO TDS, if it is within reason, then I would replace the DI with a vertical housing nad new resin.

Honestly, this is a broken record thread (no offense to the OP) but many of hte eBay units are just garbage. You really do get what you pay for with regards to the operating cost and quality of these things. This is not rocket science of voodoo. It is very easy to show exactly why some units are better than others and to quantify why some units cost more to operate than others.

This thread and the OPs problems are a prime illustration.

If you can get back to us with the RO TDS it would help us help you greatly. Also get us a TDS (again) of your input water and the final product water. From those numbers we may be able to track down your problem (other than the fact that your DI is simply not doing it's job).

 

[nikonosis]

what is a decent ro reading? ill check it later today.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6990511#post6990511 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Without knowing the TDS of hte RO water, it is hard to say exactly what problems he was having. However it sounds like either a bad post filter (after the DI) or the Membrane is shot, and the DI is exhausted, or bypassing a LOT of stuff.

The first thing I woul do would be to check the RO TDS, if it is within reason, then I would replace the DI with a vertical housing nad new resin.

Honestly, this is a broken record thread (no offense to the OP) but many of hte eBay units are just garbage. You really do get what you pay for with regards to the operating cost and quality of these things. This is not rocket science of voodoo. It is very easy to show exactly why some units are better than others and to quantify why some units cost more to operate than others.

This thread and the OPs problems are a prime illustration.

If you can get back to us with the RO TDS it would help us help you greatly. Also get us a TDS (again) of your input water and the final product water. From those numbers we may be able to track down your problem (other than the fact that your DI is simply not doing it's job).

 

[BeanAnimal]

For a DOW filmtec 75 GDP membrane, 2% TDS is good (some people get even less).

For a GER DESAL membrane or DOW 100 GPD membrane a 10% TDS reading is within specs.

So if your INPUT water is 200 TDS then the DOW FILMTEC should output someplae around 2 TDS, the GE DESAL someplace around 20 TDS. Other "filmtec knock offs" anywhere from 25 TDS to 10 TDS would be expected.

Bean

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6987654#post6987654 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
*Bean*
Not to hijack this thread, but I could use some help.
I posted this thread about replacement filters for my Filterdirect unit. I dont want to scrap the whole thing, but replace all the filters to bring it up to snuff. Specific information on parts would be much appreciated.

If you would rather reply to my thread, or reply here, I would appreciate the advice.

TIA

Please?


Basically, I have a FD unit and I want to replace needed parts to get it up to snuff. I assume a good 75GPD Fimtec and vertical DI would do it? How about the prefilters? This is a 6 stage unit with the home drinking water option. Any difference between what AWI and Buckeye FS sell?

Thanks!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Your prefilters should be fine. Replace them every 6 months, or every time you replace DI resin (whichever comes first).

What is your input TDS? This will dictate if it is "worth" prematurely upgrading the MEMBRANE. The vertical DI canister is a must. Get one from a reputable vendor and have them pack it for you (buckeye or AWI, or even melev). This is the single most important thing you can do to ensure 0 TDS output. If you have high TDS input, then yes a new membrane will greatly extend the life of your resin.

Bean

 

[sjm817]

Thnx for the reply. I just took a look. First of all, I have 2 TDS meters. Admittadly, neither have ever been calibrated, so I know that is an issue.

I have a handheld:

And a dual inline connected input before and output after the DI.

The tap water reads 189 with the handheld
If I make up some water, the inline starts with the input ~ 8 and the output ~4. After it runs a little while, the input and output both go to 1. The handheld reads 4 on the DI output, so there is a discrepancy.

Dumb question:
Would it make a difference if the normal horizontal DI is mounted vertically? Input on the bottom, output on the top?

 

[BeanAnimal]

It mayhelp a little bit to orient the DI cartridge in that fashion. However, you will find that due to the packing method and size of the cylinder, the water will tend to still bypass the resin. It can't hurt to try though!

 

[sjm817]

How about my TDS readings? Good/bad/inconclusive?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Youyr inline meters do not sound to accurate. It is not likely that a 90% membrane will output 1 TDS water with an input 0f ~200

That leads me to believe the handheld is more accurate. Which also shows that your DI is not doing it's job. The output should be closer to ZERO. Does your unit have an RO only output? Test that with the handheld.

 

[sjm817]

The drinking water is RO without the DI and goes through an extra carbon filter. That is a TDS of 5 with the handheld. Both the inline and handheld show little difference in RO Vs DI. The 189 TDS is right out of the faucet, and doesn't touch the RO/DI system at all. I dont know what the TDS is going in to the RO membrane (TDS drop from prefilters). I'd have to do some work to get a measurement there.

 

[ohioreef]

I have a filterdirect unit and it is far from, as you call it, junk!! I did get mine with the 75gpd membrane and replaced the horizontal DI with a full size vertical DI and have been very very pleased and I spent significantly less than your "name brand" models.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I am not interested in the arguement... either you are trolling or misinformed. Where in this thread did I use the work JUNK? Either way, this is a weekly deal around here and starting to get old.

If you disagree with the facts above, then please explain why and show where my facts are incorrect. You have a "filterdirect" unit, that has been "customized" and is therefore not the same price or performance level as the typical "ebay" unit.

I can buy a jeep and put a bigblock in it, that surely does not make jeeps fast or powerful.

You state you have a 75GPD membrane, is it a DOW FILMTEC or GE DESAL, OR WORSE, an overseas knock-off with filmtec fabric?

You state you replaced your DI, how much did you pay? Is your unit 5 stage, or smaller?

In other words it appears you jumped right in here to troll for a fight, but really have not offered anything other than a vague statement. Sorry to be so blunt, but as I stated, this arguement seems to be a weekly ordeal. The outcome is always exactly the same. The "pro Filterdirect" folks make all kinds of accusations and misinformed statements, only to shown why they are incorrect.

The price difference between the "name brand" and the "filterdirect" is $100. Most of that cost is the difference in MEMBRANE, DI RESIN, DI HOUSING. The remaining few dollars of difference is in valves and fittings that make the unit more convenient. Customer service is something to consider (may or may not have value to certain people) and the "overall" quality of the supporting components and assembly. It is a know fact that a large percentage of the FD units come plumbed incorrectly or with VERY LEAKY fittings. (not a problem for some folks, a nightmare for others).

Honestly ohio, what exactly do you want to fight about and why bother? I am trying to help people get the most out of what they have or spend their money wisely. If you feel insulted that your unit gets critical reviews, then I am sorry, but the facts speak for themselves.