setting up on an uneven surface

M

mjrwingnut

New member
I'm going to setup my new tank on a hearth where I had a wood stove. The problem is that it's uneven. I was told that I could try to use 1/2" foam insulation on the bottom of my stand.

The idea once I start to add water slowly it will slow self level. I attached a few photo's let me new what do you guys think.
showphoto.php
 
Wow. That trumps my issues. I have been exploring unevenness and what to do about it on my tank load thread and my other (but related) what to do about it thread.

But you've added a new dimension with the variations inherent in the rockwork. Good luck. Keep us posted. Thanks.
 
I would use shims myself. I wouldn't trust foam to stay over time. Set the stand with tank and just a bit of water and push shims in till the water is level all the way around. Once you have it set and level fill all voids with shim just barely snug. Fill the tank, cut off excess shim. If the edge looks ugly at that point, add a base shoe all the way around to dress it up.
 
Do you think if I got a dremel and grinded down the rocks where the stand sits on.

Think that will work better than the foam insulation?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12013225#post12013225 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bristlew0rm
If setting up a glass tank, make darn sure it's perfectly level ... if acrylic, it just doesn't matter.
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Why would you say this? I am just curious as I have seen both acylic and glass tanks fail.
 
I was thinking that in your hearth case, you could also create a temporary form and pour a slab of floor leveller under the footprint of the stand. Maybe extend it beyond the dimensions of the stand so the edges don't crumble over time.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12013729#post12013729 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
Why would you say this? I am just curious as I have seen both acylic and glass tanks fail.
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I say this simply because it's been my experience.

Glass tanks NEED to be perfectly level, acrylic do not.

I've personally never had an acrylic tank fail (out of hundreds), and even had an 8' 240 gallon acrylic tank FULL OF WATER 12" higher on one side than the other -- it was set up like this for over 2 years and did not fail.

Now, I've HEARD OF an acrylic tank failing -- like that guy on Craigslist about 3 months ago -- but I seriously question other factors such as quality, age, prior damage, light fixture too close to supporting braces, or perhaps one too many holes drilled too close to the joints.

A plastic (acrylic) tank should really never fail if properly constructed, and thats exactly why TruVu offers lifetime guarantees on their aquariums -- because they know damn sure that it's thoroughly glued and the material used is appropriate for the height of the tank.

An acrylic tank failing is just as likely (in my opinion) as a tupperware container failing. They're chemically very comparable, and since acrylic tanks are generally constructed using solvents and glues which actually melt the material together, it's unlikely that an uneven surface would cause enough stress to be a problem. Considering that acrylic is 14-16 times more impact resistant than glass, I think that is also a factor.l

I'm just curious, where/what conditions have you seen an acrylic tank fail? Are you also referring to that one guy from Craigslist?
 
That was not the one that I was referring to as I have seen and read of mutliple tanks of each failing. I have seen more glass, but acrylic as well. Especially in six foot or more tanks that only have a single brace. They begin to bow and you know what come next.

I agree that the bond in acrylic is very strong. I think the most important thing is a level surface no matter what the tank is made of.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12016068#post12016068 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mothra
I wouldn't put any tank directly on that surface.
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Oh, definitely not ... that would certainly be disastrous.

I would either use plywood or some kind of foam or both.
 
Wingnut,

If you don't care about the stonework, I would mix some multipurpose thin set as a adhesive and then pour some cement on top and float it until its level. This will give u a perfect surface for placing your tank.

If you do care about the stonework underneath, I would recommend you use shims as mentioned by Asm. You could cut a piece of plywood to lay on top of the rockwork and put the shims under this.

Earthworm,

Your explanation to Marko, didnt make any sense. You just repeated, in a conclusory fashion, that glass tanks "need" to be level. I have had several glass tanks that have not been anywhere close to level.

Much more important than being level is the surface being even on which the tank is directly mounted. If the stand is bowed, so that the tank is not supported evenly in the middle, the bottom may collapse or crack. This risk may be greater with glass tanks thank with acrylic tanks, but should be distinguished from a tank being "level". That my friend, doesnt matter with either type of tank.

Lee
 
I honestly don't care about the stonework on the hearth, it the stone work on the wall is what I want to keep.

About the plywood, should I go for 1/2" or thinner?
 
If you dont care about the stonework on the hearth, do what Sheldon said and just apply a thin layer of thin set so that you have a smooth flat surface to start with. That way you can be sure you have a level surface
 
I like Kevin's suggestion of the floor leveler product. It's at Lowes/HD. The thinset isn't really made for this purpose-it's used for it's adhesive properties, and it will be difficult to get it as flat as the leveler would get.

As for the rigid styrofoam instead.. IF the floor surface is only out of flat in local areas by a 1/4" or so, AND if your stand bottom is a continuous piece of 3/4" plywood then using the styrofoam should be fine. The little ridges in the slate (we have some too) will compress the foam in local areas as needed because the pressure will be higher there until the foam compresses and balances out the weight load.

The amount of weight per square inch of your tank upon a stand base like this is 1-1.5 pounds of pressure per square inch across each square inch of the plywood that's resting on the foam. This is well under the amount that would compress 1/2" thick styrofoam (also at Lowes/HD) even 1/8" except in a local area where there is a ridge in the slate.

If you need proof, put the foam on the slate, put a 10" square of plywood on the foam, and stand on it. Distribute your weight equally on the plywood (don't just stand on one edge). 150 pounds of bodyweight standing on a 10" square of plywood will be about the same psi as your filled tank resting on the plywood base of your stand.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12016592#post12016592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sheldon337

Earthworm,

Your explanation to Marko, didnt make any sense. You just repeated, in a conclusory fashion, that glass tanks "need" to be level. I have had several glass tanks that have not been anywhere close to level.
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Right, thats what I said ... glass tanks need to be level, or it causes stress on the joints which will eventually always fail -- makes perfect sense. Acrylic tanks will NOT stress at the joints if placed on an uneven surface -- that's simply what I was distinguishing.

The fact that you've had glass tanks that aren't perfectly level means precisely nothing. I've too had dozens of glass tanks that weren't perfectly level, but if we're talking about a > 4' tank, there is an increased risk.

Much more important than being level is the surface being even on which the tank is directly mounted. If the stand is bowed, so that the tank is not supported evenly in the middle, the bottom may collapse or crack. This risk may be greater with glass tanks thank with acrylic tanks, but should be distinguished from a tank being "level". That my friend, doesnt matter with either type of tank.
[/B]
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I strongly disagree that "much more important than being level is the surface" -- I think that FOR A GLASS TANK ONLY, being level is MORE important (to prevent stress on joints), particularly since the bottom pane of a glass tank is never resting directly on the surface.

I will agree that being level and being on a flat surface may be equally as important.

The only point that I'm trying to get across (without criticism from an expert like yourself), is that glass tanks need to be perfectly level or you will degrade the structural integrity over time -- that's all.

Let's all follow the RC tradition and argue about solid facts ... any structural engineers in the house? Tank builders?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12016049#post12016049 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
That was not the one that I was referring to as I have seen and read of mutliple tanks of each failing. I have seen more glass, but acrylic as well. Especially in six foot or more tanks that only have a single brace. They begin to bow and you know what come next.

I agree that the bond in acrylic is very strong. I think the most important thing is a level surface no matter what the tank is made of.
Click to expand...

Gotcha ...

Yes, I've too seen poorly constructed acrylic tanks bow too much ... but it usually is only when it's home-made or the material is too thin -- like a 30" tall tank with 1/2" sidewalls -- it will work for up to 6' tanks, but the bow scares the crap out of me.

Acrylic tanks actually always bow (by design) and its the primary reason that they are so darned strong -- because the material absorbes the stress. Glass is so rigid that it isn't so forgiving.
 
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