Shapelock DIY N/P reducing Pellets or Nuking the tank...

jason2459

jason2459

Well-known member
Figure I'd start up a thread on something I'm trying out and track the results. Better then continuing to side track this thread where the idea got started:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1766100


To start off I did a 24hour soak of 250g of Shapelock in Vinegar. Then several rinses in RO/DI and soak for another 24hours. Have no idea if it was necessary but I figured better safe then sorry but then again what I'm trying out sounds like it's not very safe anyway.

In the thread above someone had issues with their corals retracting once Shapelock was introduced. So, I'll be looking out for that. I have three LPS corals that have been growing pretty well and will look for any negative reactions.

I'm mostly looking for a reduction in phosphates as my nitrates have been a flat 0 and no issues with that. Using the ever so accurate API test kit my phosphates where off the charts and now maintaining at about 1.0. Who knows if it is right or not but I do know I have been having a great time with blowing off cyano off everything. I have one of those new hanna checkers for phosphate coming in soon.

I do have a pretty heavy bioload for my tank and anything related to the tank equipment or inhabitants can be referenced here in my running journal thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1673282

I feed twice a day which I know is a lot but it has also gotten my clowns (Amphiprion ocellaris), mandarins (Synchiropus splendidus), and Banggai Cardinals (Pterapogon kauderni) to breed. I feed pellets with an auto feeder in the afternoon and a cube of frozen at night. As long as my nitrates are hitting 0 I'll continue to do this.

In comes GFO, water changes, chaeto, and now Shapelock to help with the rest. I'm sure this isn't going to be over night and expect to not see anything at all if anything for at least a month. I'm not going to change any of my routine other then adding the 250g of shapelock to my canister filter (Marineland 220). I have GFO in the bottom chamber and placed Shapelock in the third chamber up from the bottom.

1st bottom chamber GFO
2nd nothing
3rd Shape lock
4th nothing (did have Carbon but I don't want anything blocking any possible bacteria leaving the shapelock)

Added it about two hours ago and so far everything is looking normal. The skimmer did go crazy for about 45 minutes but has since calmed down to normal.

Will keep posted if anything changes. I'd like to see in about two months a decent reduction in phosphates with out the need to change up my feeding habits.
 
Jason,

I'll be following along as well. ;)

It would be nice if the manufacturer at least disclosed how they produce their polycaprolactone. Some processes can include wheat gluten in the polymer, which is a cheaper method of production. Incorporating wheat gluten will provide a product that is good for modeling purposes at a cheaper cost.

If they incorporate wheat gluten this will increase the amount of carbon source added and may effect how you would use it to prevent overdose. This may also result in increased skimming activity due to increased bacterial populations from the wheat gluten.
 
Hi guys :beer:

Everything looks okay so far the next morning. It's been just over 12 hours. Fish aren't struggling to breath and corals are still out and full. I figure if anything bad is going to happen it will be here in the first few days.

Shapelock really doesn't give much out about what is in their product at all. Here's what they send with it and it's on their FAQ section of their site.

http://shapelock.com/page4.html
Facts and Tips about ShapeLock


Reusable - Just reheat and remold, endlessly recycle-able.

Super Tough, Safe and Non-Toxic.

Machine-able - Easy to saw, drill, tap and mill.

Paintable - Readily accepts Acrylic hobby paints, dyes and pigments.

Excellent material for frames, brackets, forms, molds and custom parts.

How to Heat ShapeLock

With Hot Water - Place granules in a hot water bath of 160 degrees Fahrenheit, when the material turns clear remove it from the water bath with tongs, allow it cool for a minute or two and then squeeze out any excess water. A standard kitchen thermometer is useful for maintaining the correct temperature. Do NOT Overheat.

In the Microwave - Larger masses of ShapeLock can be heated in the microwave oven. Be sure to place the ShapeLock in a bowl of water to limit heating of the material. Do not allow the water to come to a boil. NEVER heat ShapeLock by itself in the microwave. The material can reach very high temperatures and cause potentially serious burns if touched. THESE HIGH TEMPERATURES ARE NOT NECESSARY, SHAPELOCK BECOMES MOLDABLE AT JUST 150 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT.

With a Hot Air Gun - A hot air gun of the type used for heat shrink tubing or a hair dryer can be used to heat ShapeLock to its moldable temperature. Be careful not to overheat the material.

What is ShapeLock?

ShapeLock is an Ultra-High Molecular Weight Low Temperature Thermoplastic.

What does "Ultra-High Molecular Weight Low Temperature Thermoplastic" mean in laymans English?

ShapeLock is a super strong plastic similar to Nylon or Polypropylene in toughness.

However, unlike the two former plastics it does not need high temperatures or high pressures to form into useful shapes.

ShapeLock is easily hand-formed into shape at just 150 degrees Fahrenheit.
Click to expand...
 
Flavordsm said:
I'm glad you are trying this.. How is everything looking?
Click to expand...

I guess it's one of those "Better you then me" things? :beachbum:

So far everything is looking normal. Water hasn't gotten cloudy, fish are breathing normally, corals are extended and retract as normal, and I have cyano everywhere. :lol:

The skimmer did go nutso again briefly yesterday afternoon. It's good to test out the overflow drain in the collection cup every once in a while... right? :worried: At least I also have a shut off switch in the lid in case the overflow can't keep up.
 
Flavordsm said:
Pretty much :o

When you say your skimmer starts going crazy is it like watery or more of a thick skim? Have you noticed any bacterial strands at all?
Click to expand...

Crazy = foam canon. Super foamy and watery. No bacterial strands noticeable at all. I have a SRO HOB lx-2000s that's getting around 1300lph of air flow according to a dwyer air flow meter. Which is probably just a little over kill for a 55g. :lol:
 
Nothing negative or of course positive to talk about yet. Just want to give a visual of what I'm starting with.

I have been having to blow off all the rock and substrate every day and keeps it clean. I went three days with out blowing off the cyano and this is what I get:

2vdilq9.jpg


2aan976.jpg



My two favorite pieces.
1zd9pfn.jpg



That was last night and I'm back to blowing it off every day again. I'll try not blowing it off for a few days again in a few weeks.
 
I am seeing interesting results just 6 days after adding np bio-pellets. I have regularly dosed microbacter 7 from day one of this tank. I woudl classify the tank as having a light to light/med bioload. 20+ acro frags, a few frogspawn heads, and 4 fish totaling 10" between them.

Up until 2-3 days ago I had a newly developing algae/nutrient issue as I was not using any GFO at the time. Basically some hair algae was sprouting and starting to fill in on the side of some frag plugs it rode in on, a few sprigs on the rocks here and there, plus the normal buildup on the glass. Anyway.. by day 4 after adding bp biopellets all the algae started going translucent and dying back.

Normally the manufacture says it can take 2 to 4 weeks for the bio pellets to take effect... yet I am seeing results in 4 days.. I've even started feeding much heavier and only measure .02 po4 on a hannah meter and can't discern nitrate with an api test tonight.

Anyways I mention all of this as I think you might benefit from adding microbacter 7 to your effort as I think it has really enhanced my results with the bio pellets. Good luck with your experiment.. I'll be following along!

ETA: You might want to place the outflow from your reactor at your skimmer to help export bacteria exiting your canister. With the biopellets this accomplished two things; 1) readily exports the nutrient laden bacteria, 2) equalize the CO2/02 saturation of the water that exits which in turn prevents a dip in ph. Bactera should still make it past the skimmer to feed the corals in the display.
 
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Thanks Chuck for your input on your experience with the N/P Bio-Pellets plus the MB7. I've read through that thread since it first started. Very interesting results there. Also see some people use something called Special Blend. I think for right now I'll just leave the pellets to try and do their thing if anything. This could be a big flop. That would be okay. Because the worse case would be that it nukes my tank and I lose everything.

If I didn't try this experiment I would probably start dosing vinegar. I still don't know about using any other bacterial additives though. Something I might look into in the future if this experiment does nothing and vinegar alone doesn't do it. I like to try one thing at a time. I have been using GFO and that took my phosphates down from an insanely high number to just a really bad high number. API test kit was off the charts and now it's steadily reading 1.0. I'll take some numbers after this weekend to see where its at. I'm still waiting for the hanna checker to get in stock. Even if the API test kit is wrong at least it's consistent and I can see the phosphates going up and down with it. Which to me is just as important.
 
Noticed the past two nights my duncans not as full as normal and seem to be retracting in their tubes a lot more. Either they are eating something a lot more often or there's something in the water they don't like. The blastos and torches look very full still. In fact the torch looks bigger then it has before. I'll have to keep an eye on the duncans closer. There were three brand new heads starting when I first put in the pellets and they seem to still be growing so can't be completely negative, I hope. Cyano is still appearing daily.

If there is an increase in bacteria I don't see it and doesn't seem to be effecting the O2 levels at all but then again my skimmer is injecting a lot more air into the system then the typical 55g skimmer would.
 
Hmm.. Thats interesting. I would keep an eye on your duncan. Maybe he is just being kranky mine does that every once in a while. Good job keeping us posted on your results. Maybe this PCL takes a little longer to degrade than the n/p bio pellets
 
Jason,

Thanks for the link. :)

The remarks that Agathos has made in the posted thread above tells it pretty much the way I believe from the research I have read regarding populations of bacteria studied in the ocean, though this information can't be directly correlated to a reef tank.

For example scientists have taken samples from the ocean surface water at various spot and then analyzed the bacterial populations present in one gallon of ocean water. They have found that there are literally tens of thousands of types of bacteria in one gallon of ocean water found within the top 30'. If I were to use this knowledge and try to transfer what to expect to find in an average reef aquarium I would expect to find at least thousands, if not a lot more types of bacteria in a reef tank.

Other research completed on bacteria introduced into reactors used on tanks has shown that introduced bacteria do not compete in general with native species for the nitrogen cycle purposes. The research shows that usually several species of bacteria end up dominating the nitrogen cycle and the bacteria species will shift when the concentrations of nitrate, nitrite and ammonia are changed. Further research has demonstrated that the bacterial species will shift with changes in dissolved organic carbon content and type. Further research has demonstrated that the bacterial species will change if the heavy metal content changes in amount and type. Further research has demonstrated that the bacterial populations will shift with temperature changes. These bacterial shifts in species does not mean the the other species go away. To the contrary they still survive, but not in dominate numbers. Recent research has shown that bacterial species have survived for many tens of thousands of years, many in very reduced numbers, but still available if the need presents itself to make a come-back.

One might extrapolate from this research that every change we make in food, vitamins, organic carbon dosing, supplement dosing (heavy metals), temperature changes........etc can cause shifts in bacterial populations in the water column, substrate, rock, inside the coral tissues and in the secretion layers around the coral. Thankfully, these changes in bacterial populations in most situations are not a bad thing and the bacteria that replace the others are actually more effective at the job for nitrogen cycle purposes.

However, hobbyists do notice bad things happening occasionally from these bacterial specie shifts, IMHO. :( For example, some hobbyists will dose carbon sources (like vodka, vinegar, sugar, vit. C and amino acids) and notice problems starting. What kind of problems to expect from bacterial specie shifts would be tissue necrosis in coral. What happens according to research, is the new bacterial species that take over can (in some cases) produce toxins that actually kill the coral. Some of the toxins can be sulfur compounds or other organic sources that are very toxic. In other cases, the new bacterial will start physically eating the coral tissues and beneficial bacterial species. In many cases it is impossible to stop the new bacteria from killing the coral. Perhaps fragging the coral may help.

IMHO, the moral of the story is that every change we make in a reef system can cause bacterial population shifts, either for the better or worse. So, one should be careful in what they add, and make changes very slowly and carefully watch for noticeable changes in the coral color, polyp health and signs of tissue necrosis. One should only change one variable at a time. ;)
 
FWIW, to add to what I have posted above, the same applies to other micro-organisms found in a reef tank, especially the cyanobacteria, algae, symbiotic algae within coral tissues and dinoflagellates. These other micro-organisms can change in populations for the same reasons that bacterial populations change and these other micro-organisms can in some cases, produce toxins that harm the coral. In other cases, the changes in bacterial & other micro-organism populations can cause color changes in coral that many hobbyists seem to like. ;)

When playing with carbon sources, vitamins, amino acids, higher temperatures, heavy metals (micro-nutrients), changing food types, making major changes in water parameters, introducing new things into your tank and many other aspects of our hobby, we are playing with fire. Sooner or later someone is going to get burnt, which is seen occasionally in this forum. :(

I have been burnt several times, since I like to experiment more than anything else. :lol:
 
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