Shepardi Angel

[MikeandNicole]

My local LFS got in an absoluetely beautiful Shepardi angel. We are debating over if we should get one or not. Fish is about an inch and a half and we watched it eat. It has been at the store for over a week and looks great. Background:

45 gallon: Mostly SPS some lps and zoas. Pair of clowns, pair of mandarins, sunburst anthia, golden assesor basslet.

30 gallon: Pair of clowns, pearly head jawfish, mystery wrasse (had been with angels in the past with no problem at all). Mixed reef again and 2 RBTAs

I read these fish can be aggressive which would kind of rule out the 45g. The 30g might be too small. Either rule this fish out for us or throw some gasoline on the fire to get it. We have experience with angels but had to get rid of our most recent one a multicolor because he was destroying our sps corals.

 

[Toddrtrex]

What type of clowns are they?

Have they started to spawn yet?

 

[MikeandNicole]

The 45g is picasso clowns the the 30g is black and white false percs. No they have not started to breed yet, hoping they do soon. The only spawning pair is the mandarins.

 

[Toddrtrex]

IMO, the 30 is at its limit bio-load wise.

The 45 is pretty much at the limit too. But, I know that it would be hard to pass up, and if you had to do that, the 45 would be the lesser of 2 evils.

 

[MikeandNicole]

I know with the bioload we are pushing it. We over skim and do weekly 10% water changes and have about 50 pounds of very porous rock. We run a dual carbon and bio pellet reactor and our water tests our regularly very very well (zero nitrates nitries ammonia). When we had the multicolor in the tank the water still tested at those same levels.

What we were more worried about was coral compatibility and aggression levels. I have read on one site that they are the most aggressive dwarf angel out there and should not be kept and another site said that they are model citizens with everything except other angels.

 

[MikeandNicole]

Double post.

Thank you very much for your replies.

 

[Toddrtrex]

I have never kept them, but have kept numerous dwarfs, currently have 4. I am more worried about the clowns, I HAD a mated pair of pink skunks they were very very aggressive. Ended up having to sell them off because of how aggressive they were towards my dwarfs.

 

[LemonLemon]

Probably a rusty x flame angel hybrid.

Unlikely the true shepardi.

 

[rachenbrazil]

if true sheppardi, grab it as it seems that recently no collections for the real species lately... in 45 would be fine

 

[MikeandNicole]

I will try and get a picture of the fish this weekend to get a positive ID.

 

[copps]

A picture won't help... this fish is almost certainly one of the specimens being exported out of Cebu in the Philippines, which I believe to be flame x rusty hybrids. The resemblance to "true" shepardi is no coincidence though, as I believe shepardi to be a species formed as a result of millennia of hybridization in the Marianas Islands between ferrugata and loriculus. For more information read this thread... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1702055

Anyway, I have since clipped fins of multiple specimens of these fish being exported from Cebu, and am working with two well known ichthyologists now to find the answer. They have true shepardi specimens too, and are currently trying to find the genetic markers... when work is finished they'll be a paper published so we'll see if my suspicions are confirmed!

These fish from Cebu have recently been imported in good numbers. Mike, may I ask what you paid for your fish?

Copps

 

[MikeandNicole]

I have not bought it yet but is is going for $180

 

[Yurivd]

A picture won't help... this fish is almost certainly one of the specimens being exported out of Cebu in the Philippines, which I believe to be flame x rusty hybrids. The resemblance to "true" shepardi is no coincidence though, as I believe shepardi to be a species formed as a result of millennia of hybridization in the Marianas Islands between ferrugata and loriculus. For more information read this thread... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1702055

Anyway, I have since clipped fins of multiple specimens of these fish being exported from Cebu, and am working with two well known ichthyologists now to find the answer. They have true shepardi specimens too, and are currently trying to find the genetic markers... when work is finished they'll be a paper published so we'll see if my suspicions are confirmed!

These fish from Cebu have recently been imported in good numbers. Mike, may I ask what you paid for your fish?

Copps

this will be interesting

 

[copps]

I have not bought it yet but is is going for $180

That is about the going rate... this specimen sold on Wednesday in the Diver's Den for that...

http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversde...ref=4282&subref=AI&cmpid=E-_-TR-_-DDN-_-PRDCT

Notice the above specimen is much more flame than rusty... this is a fish that I would never see in Guam for that reason... specimens like the one above almost prove hybridization is going on...

I have combined four specimens in one of my systems to see what happens as they grow and start spawning... one full Centropyge ferrugata, one full Cebu Centropyge loriculus (a rarity), and two of the hybrids...

Copps

 

[MikeandNicole]

Thank you for your replies copps, I will probably put a picture up anyways as this fish is really cool. If it is a hybrid (which I would have to strongly believe at this point) it is a cool one and more rusty then flame.

 

[MikeandNicole]

The main guy in the store has been on vacation for the past week so I can't ask where the angel was exported out of which would give me the definitive answer as to what it is. Here are some pics, sorry about the quality the little bugger won't sit still.

 

[Daniel Reef]

Looks like a beautiful fish.

 

[Outerbank]

Very cool fish!

 

[LemonLemon]

this one looks very very very shepardi like.

but it's a rusty flame.

 

[MikeandNicole]

Ok so this fish was collected out of Cebu so just like Copps said it is probably a hybrid.

One other thing I did note when really checking out the angel with the owner, the fish at the store had black gill spikes. When going through the angelfish book they had (very nice book BTW) we noticed that shepardis has black gill spikes and neither flames nor a rusty angel had black gill spikes. Could be coincidence or maybe a sign, who knows.