Should I plumb the drain to a Filter

sabbath

Premium Member
I'm looking to do a reset on my 180g. I'm going to set it up as a FO minimum to no live rock.

Filtration is looking to be a
-3.5 gallon Wet/Dry trickle filter with a single inlet. I could drill for another. Not sure of the flow to this one. (500 GPH?) It is a 10"x10" top plate.
-L4 ATS 520 GPH
-L2 ATS 300 GPH
-Skimmer
-Carbon and GFO as needed

I'm wondering right now about plumbing the drains. Sump layout? Would you pipe right into any of the filters and if so how?
Thanks
 
You might try this in the Fish Only forum.

I would not run a wet/dry system. I would use a modern sump design, plumb the drain(s) to filter socks (make them easy to change), make sure your sump has room for oversized skimmer. Target 4-5x flow through your sump.

I would also put in as much LR as you can (understanding you want more swimming room / less LR)
 
Subscribed, I'm interested to find out about this too

This thread is dead. I asked a "plumbing" question 6 days ago and all I get is a reply with "You might try this in the Fish Only forum"

And a "I would not run a wet/dry system"

But to help you and maybe a few others. I was looking to have 1 drain go to the Trickle filter and the other go the ATS's. I decided not to do this because I pictured the slot on the ATS pipe clogging up fast. This would make it hard to get good flow to it. Then all would go to the Wet/Dry. I'm thinking that a ATS pipe is better off running under the pressure of a pump.

So I decided to get a second Trickle filter and I'm going to have one on each of the drains. I really like the idea of this as now I will have really good prefiltration! As both have a large 10"x10" foam filter on top of them on a drip tray.

Oh and on the Trickle filter argument. I have had aquariums running with most types of filters ever used sense I started tanks in the early 80"s. My tanks that have been run with only LR and a protien skimmer have always had the most troubles with algae. The easiest and cleanest tanks for me has been the ones that I can clean everything and everywhere. LR gets clogged and dirty for me even with weekly turkey basting and tons of flow. Sand also getting nasty under and behind LR has been a problem for me over time as well. So I'm looking to do more of a bonsai aquascaping with this one. That way I can shipon around the rocks.

There is no cleaner, easier system then one with a sponge in a drawer as a mechanical filter.
Socks are a more work to clean for me vs foam.
The plastic media does not get that dirty under a foam filter. But is very easy to clean versus LR if it does get dirty in there.
Ammonia and Nitrite are taken care of well with the Bio-balls IME.
Then having a very good running Fuge (macroalgae..) or a ATS have always given me zero Nitrates.

So this is is one area that I have found to not go the way of the masses.
 
This thread is dead. I asked a "plumbing" question 6 days ago and all I get is a reply with "You might try this in the Fish Only forum"

And a "I would not run a wet/dry system"

But to help you and maybe a few others. I was looking to have 1 drain go to the Trickle filter and the other go the ATS's. I decided not to do this because I pictured the slot on the ATS pipe clogging up fast. This would make it hard to get good flow to it. Then all would go to the Wet/Dry. I'm thinking that a ATS pipe is better off running under the pressure of a pump.

So I decided to get a second Trickle filter and I'm going to have one on each of the drains. I really like the idea of this as now I will have really good prefiltration! As both have a large 10"x10" foam filter on top of them on a drip tray.

Oh and on the Trickle filter argument. I have had aquariums running with most types of filters ever used sense I started tanks in the early 80"s. My tanks that have been run with only LR and a protien skimmer have always had the most troubles with algae. The easiest and cleanest tanks for me has been the ones that I can clean everything and everywhere. LR gets clogged and dirty for me even with weekly turkey basting and tons of flow. Sand also getting nasty under and behind LR has been a problem for me over time as well. So I'm looking to do more of a bonsai aquascaping with this one. That way I can shipon around the rocks.

There is no cleaner, easier system then one with a sponge in a drawer as a mechanical filter.
Socks are a more work to clean for me vs foam.
The plastic media does not get that dirty under a foam filter. But is very easy to clean versus LR if it does get dirty in there.
Ammonia and Nitrite are taken care of well with the Bio-balls IME.
Then having a very good running Fuge (macroalgae..) or a ATS have always given me zero Nitrates.

So this is is one area that I have found to not go the way of the masses.

Both of your drain lines should go to the same place in the sump. Usually this will be the skimmer section, considering bio-balls/trickle filters were removed from the arsenal of tools for marine aquarium keeping.

Other methods are more effective at dealing with the nitrogen cycle, (Ammonia->Nitrite->Nitrate) such as rock, sand, and every single substate/surface within the system; the addition of bio-balls is jsut going the way of the masses of yesteryear and wasting money, and they just adds more problems. In 36 years I have never come across a well managed system that had issues converting Ammonia->Nitrite->Nitrate. If the system is cycled initially the right way, this will never be an issue. A lot of rock, little rock, a lot of sand, a little sand, is irrelevant. The problems you report having had, are due to a lack of nitrate removal, underpowered skimmers, and too low a flow rate.

Also, mechanical filtration in general has been dropped from the marine aquarium keeping arsenal as well. What we are concerned with in a marine system CANNOT be removed by mechanical filtration, and that is Dissolved Organics, of which the only method for direct removal is a "protein skimmer."

The tanks that you have run with rock and a skimmer had problems because you did not adequately deal with the issue of nitrate removal (a problem with bio-ball driven systems) nor was the skimmer up to the task of keeping the dissolved organics in check, most likely becasue they were too small (no. 1 issue with poor skimmer performance is improper sizing.)

You had to keep cleaning things becasue very simply, your flow rates are too low to keep the particulate matter in suspension where it is available as an important food source. This "fallout," along with the use of mechanical filtration and bio-balls does nothing but shoot the nitrates through the ceiling. It grossly pollutes sand beds. Everytime you cleaned everything up, the nitrogen cycle was interrupted, and had to recover, which creates more issues.

ATS methods were debunked many years ago, and were resurrected new and improved. IME, they have not improved one bit, and should be left debunked.

You did get some rather weak responses to your original post. I suspect though, you would be better off learning the proper implementation of the methods that caused you problems, which save for the protein skimmer, predate your entry into the hobby, rather than utilizing methods that were part of the technology boom, and got thrown out the window in favor of the older methods... rock and sand are the workhorses—more biology and less technology; though the quality of the rock has hit the basement, it still provides a substrate for autotrophic bacterial population, though does little else... and if a reef tank, you can glue coral to it... :)

A marine system is a marine system, it doesn't matter what specific critters are in it. A marine system can do nothing but benefit from the time proven methods still in use...if it is good for a reef it is way better for everything else...
 
Thanks.
I had about 8000gph of flow in the last LPS 180g and about 6000gph in the SPS 120g. Yes both where way to low of flow. Man flow is expensive. I have about a 1000$ in Tunze's. I Still got a ton of detritus in the rocks! If I turn off the pumps and then I did a restart after a few. It would really stir the junk up. I'm thinking of doing this once a day on the next setup.

Sent from mobile
 
Thanks.
I had about 8000gph of flow in the last LPS 180g and about 6000gph in the SPS 120g. Yes both where way to low of flow. Man flow is expensive. I have about a 1000$ in Tunze's. I Still got a ton of detritus in the rocks! If I turn off the pumps and then I did a restart after a few. It would really stir the junk up. I'm thinking of doing this once a day on the next setup.

Sent from mobile

2 vortech MP40's opposed, will do you more good than $1000 dollars of Tunze pumps, at a cost of ~$800...for either tank...
 
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