Should I remove my SSB - nitrate issues

andrewkw

Active member
I am a little perplexed this problem is not fixing itself. I am awaiting new test kits that will arrive today but the problem of cyano is only getting worse and my most likely not expired nitrate test kits are showing 20ppm+

System is a 180g + a 40g plumbed together + sump of 20-30 gallons. ATI BM250 skimmer which although old is way overrated especially considering I've had NO fish in the system for weeks due to ich outbreak. 0 feedings and 2 water changes of 80 and 100g. I would have thought this would at least give me 33% nitrate reduction but the test kits barely budged colours. Thus I have ordered new test kits. I run carbon and gfo. Phosphate is for sure expired but showed .10 although I don't believe that for a second.

I've always had problems with nitrates despite having only about 15 fish (2 tangs rest small fish) in 200+ gallons of water but problems were just keeping it below 5-10. Taking all the fish out caused me to completely tear down the tank. Only one tiny anthia disappeared everyone else was removed. Cyano has steadily been increasing on the sandbed only in the 180. The 40 gallon has a haddoni anemone so it has a dsb but also macro algae so it's effectively a second fuge, in my sump I also grow cheato. The 180 has about 1" of sugar sized sand. Sand has only been in the tank a little over a year.

I have tried using 15 gallons of sand in a barrel and it helped but did not reduce nitrates to 0 or even near 0, unfortunately the bucket developed a leak and taking it offline means it will be months before getting back to working and it didn't even completely fix the problem. Nopox also didn't work which leads me to believe that phosphates were not an issue since I do change GFO regularly. Normally I measure phosphates with the milwaukee phosphate meter but all the regents are expired. I did feed frozen food daily but have not had phosphate or algae problems for many years.

I feel like all these water changes are just raising the alkalinity which is making the few sps corals I have unhappy. LPS and softies are more or less fine. It is also difficult for me to make more then 110 gallons of saltwater at a time as I only have 2 55g barrels.

The SSB is the only thing I can think of that is causing the problem with nitrates and phosphates especially since the dsb is very clean despite not having many sand sifting creatures in it. The shallow one on the other hand does have a new snails in it. I have really been blasting the rocks to get detritus off them and changing filter socks every 2-3 days.

Finally to eliminate lights I am running all led's and RO/DI filters changed recently showing 1 TDS before DI 0 after. November 6th is when my fish go back in and I'd really like this dealt with before that. Outside of getting more barrels and doing a 100% water change removing the shallow sandbed is the only thing I can think of. I also have several NPS corals that eventually need to be fed again. Thanks for any insight.
 
Phosphates are at .20 This is certainly a surprise. RO/DI was tested at 0.00 Maybe I should try nopox again?
 
Phosphate is a contributing factor, but there are many others.
Some frown on this, but it is VERY effective.

ChemiClean

Should find it at your LFS. it's a powder additive for the removal of Cyano.
Follow the directions, and say bye bye to Cyano..

It works..
 
Since you are now dealing with both nitrates and phosphates, I would add the recommended amount of nopox to help reduce those.

We typically have cyano issues in one of our tanks where flow is restricted or blocked. Is that a problem for you? SO has been working on improving flow and that has helped. Chemiclean does work but it can mess with the biological filtration in the system which is why we are currently trying the Korallen-Zucht cyano stuff.
 
Chemipure will possibly give tangs HLL. Heard about it, then saw it first hand.

I would think running chemipure can cause hlle in tangs like any other carbon (which op is already running) can. This should be distinguished from chemiclean, which kills the particular type of bacteria (hopefully only that one) associated with cyano. I don't think the cyano treatment these guys are talking about is thought to contribute to hlle in any way.

The names sound similar but they are completely different.
 
I have some chemiclean or red slime remover or one of those things. I have used it in my garden eel tank which is fed heavily, not a reef and uses older than old t5's.

I want to remove the problems not just the cyano. My surprise is having high nitrates and phosphates when there are 0 fish and no feedings for weeks. In addition I did the 2 large but not massive water changes mentioned above.

If I can't control nitrates and phosphates with no fish and no feeding coral feedings what's going to happen when the fish go back in?
 
Update :
I have been dosing nopox and phosphate today have dropped to 0.03 which is what my phosphates usually are around. Cyano is 80-90% gone. I have been doing daily 5-20 gallon water changes sucking up the cyano and small amounts of the sand bed. Usually by morning the cyano is gone but at night there is a small amount on the sand bed. I have really been stirring up the sand as much as I can to the point where it takes 24hrs + for the water to clear. This did also cause phosphates to increase again after they started going down but now they have once again reached acceptable levels.

Unfortunately nitrates don't really seem to have moved. 10ppm from looking at the side 25-50 from the top (salifert). The other issue I had is my haddoni anemone moved. It has never moved once it found its spot in the deep sand bed in the 40g plumbed to the 180. BTA, mini carpet and rock flower anemones in the 180 have not moved.

Not sure where I go from here other then continuing to dose nopox. I have about 35 more days until I put fish back in the system and I'm obviously going to have to feed them and more waste will be produced so I really need to figure this out by then.
 
Further update : It has now been more than 2 months since I've fed the tank or a fish has popped in it. Other than a few SPS frags dying I have not lost any corals. Some LPS like blastos and gonipora are not happy with no food coming in but most are looking the same.

The cyano came back basically as soon as I stopped doing daily water changes. I did a 60 gallon water change yesterday and it still came back despite the fact I removed all traces off the sand.

Phosphates now test at 0.05 They did reach a low of 0.03 but I've since stirred up the sand bed. Nitrates are still somewhere between 10-25 when looking from the top and 10 from the side (salifert). While these levels are decent I have had to go though hundreds and hundreds of gallons of saltwater plus dose nopox to achieve this. All for a tank that is growing 2 different types of macro, has a big skimmer and has not been fed at all in over 2 months.

I have increased flow in my refugium as some hair algae is present along with the cheato. This could also be due to the fact I'm using just a regular CF bulb and I leave it running 24/7 The main tank has a very very small amount of algae and macro is starting to pop up since the tangs normally keep it under control. In the 40g anemone tank the macro is growing like crazy and I am constantly pruning it. It grows better than the cheato mostly due to much stronger lighting and flow.

While the cyano is annoying and I have chemiclean in my house I have no interest in using it as I do not want to discontinue skimming for 2 days as the nitrates / phosphates are more of an issue then the cyano.

I would like to do more big water changes but with my fish in basically filterless tanks I have to allocate much of my saltwater to them. Besides the fact this is super expensive, it's tough having the RO on 24/7 (remembering to switch barrels ect). With 30 days to go until the fish go back I plan on doing some more small water changes and removing more of the sand then another 100g before putting the fish back in. Hopefully I can reach zero or almost zero nitrates by the time they go back. I am still concerned it will shoot back up once I start feeding.
 
You shouldn't have to do daily water changes with no fish in the tank for over 2 months. Did you confirm your RO/DI water is reading 0 TDS? What kind of rocks are you using? They could be leaching something into the tank potentially.

If you want to use the chemiclean I wouldn't worry about shutting off your skimmer for a couple days. With no fish or bioload in the tank your skimmer doesn't really have anything to skim anyway....
 
Might be a good idea to take a large scoop of your sand and dump it in a bucket of brand new SW and mix it up, let it settle, test for nitrates. Can't hurt.
 
You shouldn't have to do daily water changes with no fish in the tank for over 2 months. Did you confirm your RO/DI water is reading 0 TDS? What kind of rocks are you using? They could be leaching something into the tank potentially.

If you want to use the chemiclean I wouldn't worry about shutting off your skimmer for a couple days. With no fish or bioload in the tank your skimmer doesn't really have anything to skim anyway....

No kidding, very costly very labor intensive. I only have one TDS meter but it shows 0 after DI, seems accurate as it did change to 0 as the DI changed colour. I do change the filters regularly the membrane will probably be due for replacement since I am running the thing so much but in my experience a spent membrane will simply make your filters particularly DI go real fast.

The rocks are mostly Tonga, some Fiji. Most of it I've had about 10 years. Some about 5. I combined some rock when I upgraded to a 180. The rock in the anemone tank had dried out at one point but I cured it first and tested nitrates before adding. I am thinking the rock is just spent. With that possibility I am considering removing 1/3rd of the rock.

The tanks no longer look like this as I've since torn it down to catch the fish but to get an idea of how much rock I have :

3tanks-X3.jpg


The tank on the right is my garden eel tank and is not plumbed into this setup. As for the sand in new water and nitrates I will give that a try.
 
More interesting developments : I haven't really touched the tank this week, been occupied with the blue jays however cyano seems to be getting worse. That being said tests indicate a phosphate level of 0.02 (lowest test yet) amd nitrates somewhere along the 5ppm also lowest. I did lose one blasto colony but blastos can be touch and go at the best of times and it's been months since they have been fed.

I was about to do the recommended thing and test newly mixed water with tank sand but first I figured I'd test the water and much to my surprise my newly mixed water is testing at 2ppm nitrate! I use 55g barrels to mix my water I'm guessing there is just a small amount of organic matter from reef crystals salt causing this. I used to use one barrel for freshly mixed water and one for the old water I'd recycle to my other tanks. These days I need so much water I use both for mixing new water. I tested the fresh RO/DI water in the other barrel and it came back at 0. I do wipe the barrels down but they do not always get a super crazy cleaning since it's just fresh water salt and a powerhead going in them. It's possible the crud on the powerhead is the organic matter causing the nitrates. This doesn't solve the tank issues but does help explain why large water changes are not eliminating the problems.

Finally despite not adding anything but nopox my skimmer is skimming out almost black skimmate which is why I have not taken it offline to run chemiclean. That being said I still consider it an option if nitrates and phosphates do not increase in the next 1-2 weeks. I will make water in the barrel testing at 0 nitrates with ro/di and then test that water as well.

I still plan on removing some of the rock and perhaps increasing the flow. It does look like there may be some light at the end of the tunnel but I don't want to jump to any conclusions.
 
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