Show your Mangrove Systems

[DeathWish302]

Well Frank, your display has inspired me. I ordered 15 more mangrove pods from HI. I'm gutting out a majority of the Caulerpa species and letting the new additions have a bit of time to get acclimated before I begin the trial to see if there is any deprivation.

One question: What is the average space you allow for each tree? I'm expecting about 1-1.5ft^2 is needed for the 15 additional trees is acceptable for future grow-out for a couple years. The experiment begins on Mon-Tues when the trees arrive.....

 

[rugby74]

Do mangroves grow better in sand or just hanging in the water?

 

[Frank Aguirre]

No CO2 that I'm aware

No CO2 that I'm aware

Do you have to add CO2?

Even thou I use Ca Reactors the main reason these trees grow is light and of course some uptake of nutrients out of the water that washes them all day and night.

<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/The%20Works%205/?action=view&current=DSC_1501.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/The%20Works%205/DSC_1501.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[Frank Aguirre]

Lighting

Lighting

Frank,

What have you found the best light combination to be at this point?

Well T5 HO are awesome but if you dare MH things go really crazy too quick

I have 6 and 7 ft trees in the MH and no signs to stop ( Well my ceiling will be the end but anyways)

<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/How%20to%20make%20a%20Mangrove%20Refugium/?action=view&current=DSC_2457.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/How%20to%20make%20a%20Mangrove%20Refugium/DSC_2457.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[Frank Aguirre]

Debates, Myths and pieces...

Debates, Myths and pieces...

What are we debating? Qty of nutrient uptake? I really wish I could quantify your mangrove sump to my invasive vegetable filter to see if I should just switch over. I don't think the GSM would like their home overtaken by mangrove roots.

While I wouldn't argue that certain types of Algae are quite prolific the arguments are about nutrients uptake as well byproducts.

But most of the complainers have one or two trees and that of course cannot represent much against heavily stocked tanks. The set up by Margarita man is the one that works very well

On one hand you have nutrient uptake by the trees and NO3 reduction at sand level plus refugia for critters.

<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/How%20to%20make%20a%20Mangrove%20Refugium/?action=view&current=DSCN6883.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/How%20to%20make%20a%20Mangrove%20Refugium/DSCN6883.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


Truly on a side note, have you seen the root growth explosive enough to split plastic/clay containers? If so, I should probably look into switching out the containers. I have a few in either rubbermaid disposable containers or spare breeding pots. They sit right next to a south-facing window and seem to be in a growth lull. The Caulerpa taxifolia, C. serrulata and C. prolifera I have sit under a 23W 3000K with 2 hrs of full sunlight and are growing above the water surface.

Nothing can beat natural sun light. While Anthony Calfo warn me about roots going I think glass is great at containing and I cannot see how these roots can break the glass. Maybe in 20 years LOL

<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/The%20Works%205/?action=view&current=DSC_1502.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/The%20Works%205/DSC_1502.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I'm just wondering if this is a case of nutrient deprivation and the mangroves have the short end of the stick.... Any thoughts?

I've been putting the famous algae to compete with my little forest and algae always looses while the forest hungry for light closes in leaving very little for anything below.

<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/How%20to%20make%20a%20Mangrove%20Refugium/?action=view&current=DSC_1082.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/How%20to%20make%20a%20Mangrove%20Refugium/DSC_1082.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

AWESOME system though. Your system and scubabum1983's setup are two of the best I have ever seen next to Margarita Man's setup from Anthony Calfo's article on mangroves in RK mag.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/ac/feature/index.php

I think they work, but i question the ability of these wonderfully photogenic specimens versus invasive work horses.

The choice is yours...

Best regards,

Frank A.

 

[Frank Aguirre]

Good Luck

Good Luck

Well Frank, your display has inspired me. I ordered 15 more mangrove pods from HI. I'm gutting out a majority of the Caulerpa species and letting the new additions have a bit of time to get acclimated before I begin the trial to see if there is any deprivation.

One question: What is the average space you allow for each tree? I'm expecting about 1-1.5ft^2 is needed for the 15 additional trees is acceptable for future grow-out for a couple years. The experiment begins on Mon-Tues when the trees arrive.....

I random place the seeds ( I actually prefer the mangroves at that stage than with leaves) close enough but not together.

<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/How%20to%20make%20a%20Mangrove%20Refugium/?action=view&current=DSCN9133.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/How%20to%20make%20a%20Mangrove%20Refugium/DSCN9133.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

High wise expect 2 ft in the next year or so.

Let me know please these kind of data is good to break trough myths and tales LOL

Best regards,

Frank A.

 

[Frank Aguirre]

You can go both ways

You can go both ways

Do mangroves grow better in sand or just hanging in the water?

But The reason behind sand is to provide Nitrate reduction at the same time.

I've been monitoring a tank for a year and a half with very little water change.

and the Tests are amazing almost zero No3 plus stable pH 8.3 Day and night

<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/The%20Works%205/?action=view&current=DSC_1452.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/The%20Works%205/DSC_1452.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Here is the tank 300 gal.

and here is the sump refuge

<a href="http://s1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/The%20Works%205/?action=view&current=DSC_1500.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee463/Symphy68/The%20Works%205/DSC_1500.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[DeathWish302]

Well the Hawaii Ebay mangroves came in yesterday afternoon. unfortunately 12 of the 17 had roots with dirt. No clue of the exact salinity but likely fresh SW. I guess I'll start them in a jug of fresh water and slowly raise the salinity over the next few weeks. Three of the 17 already had 2-3 leaves, so hopefully they will make it through the stress of shipping and the colder climate.

Since I have some time now, I might just make a MMLR 'mangrove pot' instead of using the plastic Rubbermaid I bought last night. Would look alot more natural and not be quite as hideous in a DT lagoon.

I've also been toying with the idea of slowly switching from CFL floodlights to the CREE LED PAR38 lights. A little pricey at around $100 a pop, but could eliminate $21/yr for the next 4-5yrs, which would really only be greener than throwing all those CFLs' away.

 

[rugby74]

Is it possible to get seeds from mangroves in your aquarium? I wasn't sure if this was even possible and I'm a mangrove noob, so I thought I'd ask.

 

[DeathWish302]

Is it possible to get seeds from mangroves in your aquarium?

I'm a little perplexed on your question....

Can you find mangrove seeds in your aquarium (i.e. from LR/LS)?....No

or

Can you fit seed pods in your aquarium?....Yes

If that's not what you were meaning, let's rephrase.

 

[rugby74]

Can mangrove plants produce seeds in aquarium/captivity?

Sorry I'm a numbers guy, English is a second language to me.

 

[DeathWish302]

I'm not going to say it's impossible if you were good at bonsai, but for almost all other cases you'll never get to that stage before they outgrow the area your housing them in. Are you looking to cultivate these? There are far more profitable avenues compared to mangroves. Your just not going to beat the guys from FL, HI & Peurto Rico with availability.

 

[rugby74]

I wasn't looking to sell them, I was wondering from a sustainability standpoint. BTW Eric Lindros was my favorite, cool avatar!

 

[DeathWish302]

I wasn't looking to sell them, I was wondering from a sustainability standpoint. BTW Eric Lindros was my favorite, cool avatar!

When considering sustainability for mangroves, there really is little concern from what I have read. The literature I have seen states the majority of pods are washed to sea and 'drown'. The area that concerns me for sustainability is Hawaii. They are able to remove rooted pods from the ground/water.

The batch of pods I purchased about a month ago came from HI and had 3-4" roots! That is not ecologically ethical IMO. The mangroves I just bought from Puerto Rico came in with no roots and were truly seedlings.

Apparently it is legal to remove non-rooted pods from FL. When I was on a 'glades tributary emptying into the Gulf of Mex, there was a sand bar which had pods piled nearly 6" deep. We paddled over and swiped about 6 pods. Three of those pods have been growing the last year in my lagoon. After seeing this sight, I do not think that the few mangrove users' in the aquatic trade can affect the ecosystem as drastically as stripping the reefs of coral and fish do. During this trip to the 'glades we also saw a FW creek near the Gulf of Mex. that had storm surges from a hurricane about 5 years ago. The trees on land surrounding this area were all killed from the salinity increase in the soil. The mangroves continued flourishing in this area even with the rapid salinity change. You could see that mangrove pods had taken root and littered all areas of bare land.

I'm one for ecological conservation, but with mangroves I think we are ok to remove the small portion for the aquatic market w/o a major impact.

Any others' have a differing view from local professional conservationists'?


....as for the Flyers, they aren't doing as well as my mangroves this post-season....

 

[Frank Aguirre]

New Data and tesing two ways of Mangrove display

New Data and tesing two ways of Mangrove display

I've been collecting data on 2 types of set up for reef tank

Model A is a passive way where mangroves are simply planted on shallow trays so water just flows thru with no other function the trays filled with sand act as detritus sinks providing all the nutrition via roots

Model B is a what I can define as an active method for Mangrove propagation with tremendous benefits for the system they filter.Consist on a complete detached system fed with pumped water from the main system and returning the water once it has passed thru the mangrove plantation

 

[Vampyroteuthis]

Hi everyone

I am thinking about trying to incorporate some mangroves into my sump so I've just started digging through the forums for info. Lots of great looking mangrove tanks in here!

Any others' have a differing view from local professional conservationists'?

Just wanted to offer my 2 cents on this as a Florida resident and 'amateur' conservationist:

Florida's coastal mangrove swamps are absolutely critical estuarine environments for a large portion of our regional sea life (reefs included). That being said, I don't see anything wrong with an aquarist grabbing a few pods here and there.

The primary conservation issue with our native mangroves is habitat loss due to urban development. The legislation regarding "removal" of mangroves was intended to prevent land developers from dredging up any more coastal mangrove swamps without a permit from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection.

In protected areas such as the Everglades I don't think there's much to worry about from the occasional harvest of a couple of seed pods... just make sure you take care of them :thumbsup:

 

[capecoral]

Maybe some seahorses would be a good fit for mangroves.

 

[heckfire]

When considering sustainability for mangroves, there really is little concern from what I have read. The literature I have seen states the majority of pods are washed to sea and 'drown'. The area that concerns me for sustainability is Hawaii. They are able to remove rooted pods from the ground/water.

The batch of pods I purchased about a month ago came from HI and had 3-4" roots! That is not ecologically ethical IMO. The mangroves I just bought from Puerto Rico came in with no roots and were truly seedlings.

Apparently it is legal to remove non-rooted pods from FL. When I was on a 'glades tributary emptying into the Gulf of Mex, there was a sand bar which had pods piled nearly 6" deep. We paddled over and swiped about 6 pods. Three of those pods have been growing the last year in my lagoon. After seeing this sight, I do not think that the few mangrove users' in the aquatic trade can affect the ecosystem as drastically as stripping the reefs of coral and fish do. During this trip to the 'glades we also saw a FW creek near the Gulf of Mex. that had storm surges from a hurricane about 5 years ago. The trees on land surrounding this area were all killed from the salinity increase in the soil. The mangroves continued flourishing in this area even with the rapid salinity change. You could see that mangrove pods had taken root and littered all areas of bare land.

I'm one for ecological conservation, but with mangroves I think we are ok to remove the small portion for the aquatic market w/o a major impact.

Any others' have a differing view from local professional conservationists'?


....as for the Flyers, they aren't doing as well as my mangroves this post-season....

yes,, these things litter the beach in so florida alot have roots and leaves but end up dieing on the beach

 

[Giga]

so here's a fun question has anybody grown mangroves with leds?

 

[DeathWish302]

so here's a fun question has anybody grown mangroves with leds?

LED PAR 38 Lamps, module or DIY setup?

I ask, b/c I just switched one 23W 5000K CFL for a $44 LED 18W 5000K unit from Lowe's this weekend. This was only for a trial, but at $44 for 5 years it was hard to beat if it works. This would be a potential savings of $100 per bulb if it truly lasts 5 years. After that (IF the led's can be replaced with CREE units), it would be a $110 savings over CFL... If your running 6 23W CFL's, it can get pricey switching bulbs every 3 months!

I'll post results in a month or so to see if the plants keep growing. I see no problem, as light spectrum is nearly the same with a drop in about 300 lumens.

This experiment (i.e. hobby) continues....