Sick Bangaii

[Mattik]

I just put two bangaii's and a oci clown into QT over the weekend. All were doing well until last night.

At that time one cardinal started isolating itself. Now its laying on the floor of the aquarium, breathing heavy. However, it still eats when offered food.

There are no visible signs of infection (ich, velvet, etc). Only the bahavior and lethargy.

Any ideas? What to treat with? Any hope?

 

[wooden_reefer]

What is your QT setup?

What is the filtration in QT?

What are the water parameters as tested?

 

[Mattik]

Trates/Trites = 0
Amonia = ?
Ph: 8.3
Salinity: 30 ppt

This was expected due to the seasoned LR in the tank, plus filtration.

I have a 10g former sump as a QT. It has a whisper filter (w/ active carbon) as well as about 5 lbls of LR from the display (this is 1.5 years old +/-).

Also, no signs of stress at all in other specimens. I "Primed" the tank just in case, but no detectable water quality issues. In any case, the Prime would adjust for any chlorine, ammonia, trites or trates if it were present.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Trates/Trites = 0
Amonia = ?
Ph: 8.3
Salinity: 30 ppt

This was expected due to the seasoned LR in the tank, plus filtration.

I have a 10g former sump as a QT. It has a whisper filter (w/ active carbon) as well as about 5 lbls of LR from the display (this is 1.5 years old +/-).

Also, no signs of stress at all in other specimens. I "Primed" the tank just in case, but no detectable water quality issues. In any case, the Prime would adjust for any chlorine, ammonia, trites or trates if it were present.

You quite possibly do not have ammonia in the water with mature LR in the QT, but what is your QT objective? Besides, there can still be ammonia if there is not enough nitrification activity on the LR. Depends on high much LR for the given bioload. The nitrifiaction activity of the LR depends on the level of bioload in the DT and the fraction of LR that it represents in the DT.

LR is not a good medium of filtration in QT when you treat the QT, say against ich. Either copper or hypo would kill growth on the LR and cause a die-off. Even though copper or hypo (gradual) does not affective nitrification much, the die-off will cause ammonia surge that the LR cannot handle.

If you are not using any treatment, you are just oberving, not treating, in QT.

Diseases among new livestock can spread quickly in the confinement of any tank if you do not treat or otherwise reduce waterborne concentration of pathogens . I generally don't have high regard for the concept of observation of new livestock without treatment.

You should not need Prime or Amquel in QT, in general if you prepare in advance to rid a QT of ammonia by nitrification, by cycling the medium of filtration in QT in advance.

 

[Mattik]

I'm looking for advice on what to treat with, regardless of whether or not my QT proceedure was ideal (and it was for observation of new fish).

BTW - I should mention that the sick fish is now isolated in a separate container (collection cup with airstone) for better observation.

Also, while the LR was included to ensure high water quality, I will of course remove the LR to treat, as I am aware that meds will kill the LR.

 

[RBU1]

I'm looking for advice on what to treat with, regardless of whether or not my QT proceedure was ideal (and it was for observation of new fish).

BTW - I should mention that the sick fish is now isolated in a separate container (collection cup with airstone) for better observation.

Also, while the LR was included to ensure high water quality, I will of course remove the LR to treat, as I am aware that meds will kill the LR.

Not a good idea to put the fish in a smaller container. Ammonia will build up very fast killing the fish if it has not already.

It is really hard to give someone advice on treatment when the only symptom is leathargic. That could be anything from ammonia to ich so hard to tell. Keep the water quality in the QT excellent and hope that the fish keeps eating. If he hangs around for a little longer hopefully then you can treat.....But get him out of the small container.

 

[badguitarist]

I agree it is very hard to say exactly what it is,
I do have one possible clue, I had ordered 4 bangaiis from an online store they all did great for about ten days and then one by one stopped eating and died within 24 hours. I contacted Dr. Frank Marini about this (through marine depot forums) and although impossible to confirm without tests he did indicate a virus known as iridovirus that plagues many wild caught bangaiis where there really arent any symptoms they simply stop eating and die. He also writes about it in C...the Aquatic Journal Vol.2 issue 1. Here is a link to the post where he answered my question:
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic104240-12-1.aspx
good luck and I hope he makes it,
Kyle

 

[Mattik]

Kyle,

Thanks for the article.

It seems strangely familiar other than the fact that the other cardinal is still doing fine. But maybe this one just has a stronger immune system than the other one did.

I guess I will be ensuring that any future cardinals I buy are captive bred. The store "wasn't sure" about these, which probably means they were WC. But, I took a chance....

Did you ever get your breeding up and running?

Matt

 

[badguitarist]

I haven't got it completely up and running yet but I have one very healthy bangaii that a buddy gave me thats about a year old. And I have 3 more in quarantine right now, that so far are doing great. I also got my turtle grass (thalasia sp.) today but it came in looking pretty poor so I'm not so sure it is going to make it.
Kyle

 

[Mattik]

gl with the new trio. Were they CB or WC?

I still have the one from my pair.

I am thinking I may get 3 more to add to the quarantine tank with this one. I may get lucky and get two pair, but at least I have I pretty good shot at one pair.

I have a large sump, so I am thinking about dividing the refugium and putting a pair down there, along with possibly a pair of clowns. I would think that small group would to well together.

Please let me know how the trio comes along.

 

[badguitarist]

Yea they are still doing fine, I am assuming they are wild caught I didn't ask though. I probably would not have gotten them but one of the stores gave them to me at wholesale price (8 bucks each) so I went ahead and did it. This gives me a total of 4 now so hopefully I at least get one pair but it would be cool to get two pairs!
Kyle

 

[Mattik]

Well, I picked up two more bangaii today. We'll see what happens. For now I am keeping all three in my quarantine tank. I'll wait til I get a confirmed pair to move them into the DT. Then I'll try to find a match for the remaining fish.

I believe the original is a male. He has already taken an interest in one of the newcomers, so I'm anxious to see where things go.