Sick sponge?

[LCDRDATA]

I purchased this red ball (?) sponge about two weeks ago. In the photos it is next to the glass, so the "two" sponges are just two sides of the same sponge (the first shot used flash, the other did not). Over the last couple of days I've noticed some pale, discolored areas - they should be visible in the photos. I don't know what might be causing the change, although I can confirm the sponge has not been exposed to air. Can someone tell me what is going on? Is this something I need to worry about - either for the sponge or for my tank? If so, what (if anything) can I do about it? Thanks!

 

[Bongo Shrimp]

That is algae growing on the sponge. It causes the tissue to start to die by blocking the passageways used for feeding. The more that dies, the harder it will be to recover the sponge. To keep it long term, you will need to blow it off with a turkey baster every day, and brush it with a soft, baby's tooth brush every day or every other day. That is how I keep all my sponges happy.

 

[LCDRDATA]

I've been using the turkey baster every couple days - I guess I need to step that up and get a baby toothbrush. I've also noticed my hermit crabs climbing about on the sponge, seemingly feeding but apparently not on the sponge itself, so maybe they'll help keep the algae off as well. Do you find your sponges do better in a higher flow or lower flow area of your tank? Thanks!

 

[Bongo Shrimp]

High flow for sponges, every time. They are filter feeders so the more flow the better. It also helps keep algae from growing if the flow is strong enough.

 

[tahoe61]

sponge

sponge

Orange and red ball sponges are known for this.
1. it may have been exposed to the air at one time. while some sponges can be exposed to the air these can not.
2. Algae may be taking a hold, increase flow.
3. Lack of food, need very sm. particals in suspension for feeding.
4. Too much light.

 

[Grandreef 2]

I would increase the flow and was the sponge released in the air because the channels in the sponge can trap air eventually causeing an infection to start

 

[Bongo Shrimp]

Yeah, now that I think about it, the sponge probably was exposed to air at some time.

 

[LCDRDATA]

"Bongo Shrimp - High flow for sponges, every time."

I'll look at moving it to a higher-flow area in the tank, but I'm guessing right in front of a powerhead is probably too much.

"cheryl jordan - Orange and red ball sponges are known for this.
1. it may have been exposed to the air at one time. while some sponges can be exposed to the air these can not.
2. Algae may be taking a hold, increase flow.
3. Lack of food, need very sm. particals in suspension for feeding.
4. Too much light."

It may be a challenge to find a high-flow AND low-light area in my tank, but I'll see what I can come up with. :hmm1:

I don't think it should be a lack of food; the other filter-feeders in the tank seem to be doing fine, and I'm spot-feeding the sponge with DT's a couple of times a week. Is there anything else you'd recommend?

In terms of air exposure, I observed this sponge at the LFS for several weeks and didn't see any of these spots then; however, I suppose my timing could be bad. I watched them bag it and there was no air exposure at that time or when I acclimated it and transferred to my tank - I was very careful on this.

The sponge did get its first brushing this evening just before being fed. Hopefully it will start improving; I guess the next question is how long do I wait to see improvement, and if there isn't any (or deterioration continues), then what?

I'll try to update when I find a new spot for it. In the meantime, I remain open to suggestion as to what else you all might have to recommend. Thanks again!

 

[tahoe61]

Sponge

Sponge

You may see new growth on part off the sponge, while another parts dies off. Sponges grow pretty slowly so it may take awhile, if the entire sponge turns whitish in color than it is probably a lost cause unfortunately. I have had more luck with sponges if placed in area of lower light, because algae is less likely to grow there and moderate flow. I currently have what is called a black sponge even thought it is blue. You could put it in a blender, leave it outside in the rain and it would still come back, sponges are just weird. Orange and red tree sponges seem to be as sensitive as orange and red ball sponges. Good luck.

 

[tahoe61]

Sponge

Sponge

double post sorry

 

[LCDRDATA]

Well it's been a few days and the sponge continues to deteriorate. The whitish area (which I presume is "skeleton") has continued to expand, and some of it has come off, either in powder or small chunks, as I've blown/brushed it. There are still a few areas of good color, and at least one where there is good color beneath the white, but I'm not sure what to do at this point. It's now been in two different low light, high flow areas with no improvement, and I'm afraid if I don't do something different I'll lose it entirely.

My options as I see it are 1) keep doing what I'm doing and hope for different results (often cited as the definition of "insanity"); 2) try to carve off all the white and discard, and hope it doesn't spread to the rest of the sponge; or 3) "frag" the sponge after doing #2 and hope one or more of the pieces survives and comes back. :hmm4:

There may well be other possibilities but I don't know what they are - I'm open to and hoping for better suggestions (or even the "best" way to implement one of the ones already listed). Finally, is there any risk to the rest of the organisms in my tank from any of these possibilities? I'd hate to lose the sponge, but the last time I tried to "save" something I ended up killing most of the rest of my tank in the process, and I REALLY don't want to do that again. :worried:

HELP!

 

[tahoe61]

Sponge

Sponge

I Would not worry about the other things in the tank, if everything is doing well so far, except the sponge. You can not know what the sponge went throught before it got to you. I myself do not purchase red/orange ball or tree sponges. I really like sponges, but if you can keep an eye out and ask other hobbyist if they have some sponges than you can get a pretty good collection going. If you know about sponges than you know that each cell is a seperate entity that forms a sponge. I would just leave it be and hope for better luck next time sorry.

 

[iamwhatiam52]

To keep it long term, you will need to blow it off with a turkey baster every day, and brush it with a soft, baby's tooth brush every day or every other day. That is how I keep all my sponges happy.

YOU BUSH YOUR SPONGES????

Now that's dedication!!!!!!!

I would have thought this was a joke, but I know from previous posts and pictures that you keep some very interesting inverts, so you must be serious.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I Would not worry about the other things in the tank, if everything is doing well so far, except the sponge.

I would worry- sponges are toxic.

This sponge is likely starving to death.
Suggestion: grow sponges from liverock. Individually purchased non-photosynthetic sponges usually starve to death in reef aquariums.

 

[iamwhatiam52]

Individually purchased non-photosynthetic sponges usually starve to death in reef aquariums.

This may explain why any that I have tried have wasted away, but then I wasn't brushing them.....

The photosynthetic ones I have gotten from other reef keepers are dull brown or black and not attractive.

Gary, can you suggest where to get colorful sponges that are likely to survive in reef tanks? Fish stores are not a good source because they do not generally know what a particular sponge needs to thrive. This does not stop them from assuring you that whatever they got from their supplier will be just fine in your tank.

 

[tahoe61]

sponges

sponges

In 25 years of keeping SW I have never had a sponge go bad and poison my tank. I have had just about every common sponge on the Market. JMO.
After reading the post about sponge toxcity, I went back and looked for conditions where a sponge poisoned a tank on several sites and found nothing.
Sponges do have there own toxins to keep other corals and sponges at bay, but nothing specific regarding them releasing toxins as they die and cause the death of other tank inhabitants.
If you are running a skimmer and carbon, I myself would not worry about it, but its your tank so if you feel more comfortable removing the sponge do so. Good Luck.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2004/invert.htm
Cheryl

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

good link, Cheryl.

This may explain why any that I have tried have wasted away, but then I wasn't brushing them.....

The photosynthetic ones I have gotten from other reef keepers are dull brown or black and not attractive.

Gary, can you suggest where to get colorful sponges that are likely to survive in reef tanks? Fish stores are not a good source because they do not generally know what a particular sponge needs to thrive. This does not stop them from assuring you that whatever they got from their supplier will be just fine in your tank.

You're right- LFS's are usually not a good source for sponges UNLESS they are purchased as hitch-hikers on liverock. If you purchase good quality liverock and place the rock in an optimal aquarium environment it's likely you'll see sponge growth. Another good way to obtain sponges appropriate for your aquarium is to get them from other hobbyists like Cheryl already suggested.

One sponge you might see at your LFS (or online) nowadays is an extremely attractive metallic blue photosynthetic sponge. It's origin is Australia. I was tempted to introduce it into my aquarium but upon researching it I would caution anyone from placing it in their aquarium because it's highly invasive (as well as toxic).
Tyree's website offers "good" sponges for sale. Tyree has used them for cryptic zone filtration for many years. He offers liverock seeded with these sponges. I'm not sure he chooses sponge species based on coloration but more for their appropriateness in reef aquaria.

Tree sponges and ball sponges sold at LFS's should be avoided.

 

[iamwhatiam52]

Thanks for the info.

Took me a while, but I found the reef farmer website I believe you were referring to. Interesting, but seems a bit expensive and unless the rocks these things come on are 5 pounds each, the shipping price does not seem reasonable.

Two more questions:

1. Are most of the sponges in this link http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1707688 likely to survive long term?

2. I have seen an expensive metallic blue sponge at a local store. Does it spread only by growing, or can it pop in other tanks fed by the same sump?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

proper environmental conditions are key to maintaining ANY sponge long term.

That being said, there are several sponges shown in your link that are highly unlikely to survive long term... but there are also several others that might thrive all too well in almost any aquarium!

If a piece of sponge breaks off and travels through a common sump it can spread to other display tanks.