Sick Z's & P's

chrishet

chrishet

Member
My entire collection is having problems. I have read some threads here on possible problems and am attacking them one at a time, starting with stray voltage from my ATO, but I thought someone here might have a quick opinion.

All my zoos have been closed up like this for several months. My other corals, SPS and LPS are thriving. I have monitored parameters closely and all are good. Alk-8.5, Ca-450, sg-1.025, mag-1350, pH-7.5-8.3. I don't measure phosphates but use RO/DI water for my makeup and water changes. The Z's and P's are located mid and lower tank, all SPS are up high. I also run carbon and started running GFO a few weeks ago. I have been doing weekly 15% water changes just in case but it has not shown any improvements. I have T5's and the bulbs are 6 months old.

I have also attached a photo of a snail that I am seeing a lot of recently, mostly on the glass. I don't have an ID on it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

-Chris

Lunar Eclipse
sick_zoos1.jpg


PPE's
sick_zoos2.jpg


Purple Hornets
sick_zoos3.jpg


snail.jpg
 
One other observation - all my zoos seemed to be stretched upward a lot...like they are reaching for the sky...could this be an indication of poor lighting?
 
Thats weird. I run t5's too and everything is in check. Too me it looks like they are all open and healthy but screaming for more light. If they have been in the tank that long they are obviously acclimated so I would start moving them up the ladder to see what that does. I always start my zoas at the bottom of the tank and then move them up as needed. IE if they look like yours currently do, no offense. I once had some sunny d's and rainbow raptors get stressed during shipment and they took 3-4 weeks to open but now they look good. You can also try putting them in a higher water flow area, or lower depending what they are in now.

It just amazes me how zoas react differently to individual tanks, or even what side you put them on. I had some eclipses that flourished on one side and melted away on the other. I firmly believe this whole hobby is trial and error on each individual system.

Good luck
 
Also wanted to add your z's and p's aren't sick. If they were they would not open, look deathly ill and be curled up.
 
This just screams of Allelopathy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allelopathy

What is the ratio of SPS in your tank? Please be very specific, it's important

If it is Allelopathy, your tank size is important. What size is your tank?

Please see this link - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1154238&highlight=25+reasons

Are you running a refugium?

Your parameters look good although I'd would like to see you dial in the PH fluctuation a bit. If you have a refugium, run your refugium on a reverse photo period to help stabilize your PH shift.

Are you using poly filters? If not, get some quick and run it 100% actively not passively with all water passing through it.

If your lps and sps are doing ok, that narrows the scope of your problem, in a good way that is.

Is it partial retraction only? At least that is what I'm seeing in your pictures. If it is only partial, it's not a predator or rogue invert. Both would result in complete retraction at least some of the time. But I could be wrong.

What type of water flow/water movement do you have in your tank? It could something that simple.

Lighting could also be the source, but your bulbs are only 6 months old, so I would have to ask you how long is your photo period?

You may simple need to prematurely replace your bulbs as you could have gotten some bad ones.

Polyp elongation isn't always due to the need for more light. It is also a stress reaction much akin to some palys which mushroom under tightly.

It's great you are running carbon, but what kind is just as important. Is it activated carbon?

If it is Allelopathy, the carbon and the poly filters will began to scrub the water clean.

I would stop the 15% water changes for now.

I would get the poly filters, switch bulbs, increase internal water movement, leave your tank completely dark, I mean pitch black for 48 hours, then run your actinics only on the 3rd day then go back to your normal photo period. Do a 30% instead of the 15 % just once, well aerated, PH and temp adjusted parameters and do this water change the day before the blackout.

If you are using RO water, how old are the cartridge filters?


Just my opinion, I hope it helps.


Mucho Reef
 
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With persistent 15 % water changes, you should have seen an improvement by now. With making the changes above, and increasing the WC ratio, you are going to slowly change the environment they're in. I made a mistake though. Your going to make these changes incrementally. Change the water first, on the first black out date, add the poly filters, on the second day, change the carbon, on the first actinic day, you should see a change by then. Fingers crossed, but answer the other questions above though if you can .


Mucho Reef
 
Great info...Thanks all. I am changing half my bulbs today. I also ordered new RO/DI filters. I don't run poly filter - I have in the past...will get some in there today. I also had turned off my skimmer a few months ago - about when this started, I will start it up again.
 
chrishet said:
Great info...Thanks all. I am changing half my bulbs today. I also ordered new RO/DI filters. I don't run poly filter - I have in the past...will get some in there today. I also had turned off my skimmer a few months ago - about when this started, I will start it up again.
Click to expand...

DING DING DING DING DING...no skimmer

Uh huh ???????? I forgot to ask about the skimmer. With SPS, you really need that skimmer running. Now the picture is a little clearer. That's why I ask what changes if any were made precipitating the retraction. As I always say, "listen to your reef, and it will yield the answers". Run that puppy full blast and you might see a difference in 48 hours. I would even hold off on the bulbs too.

One more thing, have you done the white paper test? Take a sheet of white typing paper and tape it to the right side of your tank. Then walk to the left side of your tank and look through your water lentht wise and tell me us what color the paper is.

Gotta head out for a while, will check back later. Good luck.

Mucho Reef
 
Hey Chris,

Following along on your thread, same thing happened to me before my tank crashed. I wish you the best of luck.

Mucho - great info on the allelopathy, that really might be the reason for my tank crashing.
 
I just fired up the skimmer again....Thx Mucho for all the great advice!!!!!

MUCHO REEF said:
DING DING DING DING DING...no skimmer

Uh huh ???????? I forgot to ask about the skimmer. With SPS, you really need that skimmer running. Now the picture is a little clearer. That's why I ask what changes if any were made precipitating the retraction. As I always say, "listen to your reef, and it will yield the answers". Run that puppy full blast and you might see a difference in 48 hours. I would even hold off on the bulbs too.

One more thing, have you done the white paper test? Take a sheet of white typing paper and tape it to the right side of your tank. Then walk to the left side of your tank and look through your water lentht wise and tell me us what color the paper is.

Gotta head out for a while, will check back later. Good luck.

Mucho Reef
Click to expand...
 
650-IS350 said:
In regards to T5s, what are you tank dimensions? How many T5s, how high are they from the waters surface? Some T5s do give as much par past 18-20" someone correct me if i'm wrong.

What do you have for livestock ?
Seen any of these roaming around your tank especially at night?
http://www.coralpedia.com/index.php?module=Gallery2&g2_itemId=384
Click to expand...

Charles, I do have Spionid Worms, but I wouldn't say they are pervasive - any suggestion on how to rid my tank of them? I have always had them and will periodically remove the ones I see with a pair of forceps.

Thx
 
jrb_dakine said:
Hey Chris,

Following along on your thread, same thing happened to me before my tank crashed. I wish you the best of luck.

Mucho - great info on the allelopathy, that really might be the reason for my tank crashing.
Click to expand...

It could very well be that and more commonly known as ( Chemical Warfare ),maybe, maybe not, but you should have more than partial retraction at least some of the time if it is. I guess it would all depend on the number of SPS and the severity. It's just a guess and it might be something else. You never know.

Keep in touch, we'd all love to know.

Thanks jrb.
 
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another image of the snails I am seeing...they are small...hopefully not a problem - I don't see them anywhere on the z's during the day.

snail2.jpg
 
Is the shell a flat disk type, or a rounder more ball like shape??

Looks like a harmless colonista snail to me, but if the shell is kinda flat and disk shaped- its possibly a predatory sundial snail.

I am definitly leaning towords colonista.
 
chrishet said:
another image of the snails I am seeing...they are small...hopefully not a problem - I don't see them anywhere on the z's during the day.

snail2.jpg
Click to expand...

Collonista Snails algae eaters..:reading: no worries...i have a BAZILLION of those in my tank Chris... they come out and party at night.. i hit the tank with the flash night and its like a rave.... i check in the A.M the rave is over and my zoas/palys are ok.. little white snails smaller then a popcorn kernel....
 
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