Siphon plumbing question

[ironman316]

I am putting a 300 in the wall, my sump is 20ft away in another room which is below the DT the only way I could pipe it in was to run 2 2" flex pipes along the top of my foundation behind a wall in my finished basement but the water line of the DT is 12" below the siphon line.....will this work?

 

[worm5406]

No.

In reading what you posted, a siphon has to be below the waterline. If not it will get an airbubble and the siphon will be stopped.

Did you word it correctly?

 

[ironman316]

Any suggestions on how it can work it's the only option I had to plumb it... Does the water need to siphon in a tank below then pumped to the sump??

 

[ironman316]

I needed to put the 125 gal sump and all equipment in another room because I was limited to space

 

[worm5406]

Making a split sump system can cause problems.

While it can work fine, you run into a large what if statement.

If the 1st sump cloggs and the 2nd sump is still feeding the DT, where does the overflow water go? <see the mess??>

Again, while this is a large what/if statement, it can work. It would be nice to put three lines going between the 2 sumps, a pump on two and the third a empty channel. That is if the sumps are close enough.

The two pumps would circulate/move the water. Putting a float valve, one for each pump, would alleviate any problems. Making sure the 2nd sump can handle 100% of the NON-DT load. When the 1st sumps stops getting flow it will still push the remaining water to the 2nd sump.

After a while you should be able to fine tune the primary pump to not need the secondary/backup pump. The secondary line would need to NOT have a back flow preventer otherwise a months worth of stagnate water will cause havoc.

This is off the cuff after a lovely Dallas loss... so it is not in stone nor written down.

 

[ironman316]

Thank you Worm I need to do something as this was my only option.

 

[worm5406]

Well most things can be accomplished by over engineering. Just be careful on the price.

Try to not skimp on plumbing. A million dollar tank can empty quick from a faulty $5 valve.

We did not talk about any inhabitants getting into the 1st sump or other issues.

Plan it, write it, and most of all ASK QUESTIONS.

There are so many people on these forums that can help in more ways than you can shake a hose at.

Ohh... Welcome to the forums BTW.

 

[ironman316]

Thanks so much!

 

[ironman316]

diagram

 

[Rybren]

Looking at the diagram, I don't think that this will work for you. IF you could ever get the siphon started, it might work until the power goes off. I doubt that it would restart on its own and you'll have a flood on your hands (and floor) once the return pump starts up.

 

[ironman316]

That seems to be the census with everyone. So taking everyone's professional opinion back to the drawing board I go to see if I can get the drain under the DT waterline.

Thanks to all

 

[ca1ore]

Yeah, does seem like a recipe for disaster. How 'finished' is the basement. I'd be a bit of work, but you could build a false wall against the existing one - I guess 20' is a long way, but possible.

 

[ironman316]

It's as finished as can be... Its a theater room with 5 recliners,surround sound ect but I do have a baseboard that runs the length of the wall. I'm wondering if I can get a 2" pipe in there???

 

[ca1ore]

Well, the return can go up and over, so you'd only need to run a couple of drain pipes (two better than just one). Maybe they would fit in the baseboard. Any way of running them on the outside of the wall, or is that in the ground?

 

[ironman316]

There is a return already there. But the drain is too high. You can see them in the picture

 

[worm5406]

In that last picture you need to be careful of splash, slat creep, and and spray from that manifold, being so close to the electric as you have it.

It would be nice, since this is not a DT area, to put a cover or shield to the right of all that just to protect it some. With all that splashing/sloshing at that end of the tank there is bound to be lots of microfine mist that will start to coat things.

On your drawing, I concur, there is no way to make that into a reliable siphon.

In the DT area is there a way to make a troth/runway to house the pipes and let it run along the floor?

 

[ironman316]

Worm that's what I'm gonna try. To get 2 11/2 lines floor level. And the sump will be covered with plexiglass to protect Apex

 

[worm5406]

You may not need to cover the whole thing. The sump is where a lot of air O2/CO2 swap occurs. You may want to just cover that left side. Also a fan over a sump will dramatically cool your tank in the event of environmental issues.

I only put a fan when we have too hot of summers. I would rather my heaters kick in a few times a day in the summer than not at all for a week straight. Currently they kick in once an hour here in the DC area.

 

[dave.m]

There are other ways to hide the pipes, like a knee- or chair-wall. Or you could hide them at the top of the wall in a duct run, as seen in so many basement make-overs.

I agree with the others to avoid siphons as much as possible. Keep control over your water movement at all times.

Dave.M