skimmer/ cannister filter????

[Whys]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14448095#post14448095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishtk75
I know about bioballs and are bad news because water run over top of them above the water line making nitrates. What about submerged live rock setting in a sump will that make a problem I see many do it? Will that act as the same way as the bioballs in a canister?

The issue with bio-balls, as I understand it, is too much oxygen coming into contact with the bacteria. Liverock that is completely submerged doesn't have this problem, BUT... if you put liverock in a canister then the increased flow results in a much greater contact of oxygenated water on the bacteria's surface, and this can create much the same result as bio-balls in a wet/dry trickle filter.

Canisters themselves are also well known for collecting debris and becoming nitrate factories all on their own.

Liverock submerged in a sump is usually fine and can be beneficial.

 

[vamaro]

I use an Aquaclear 110 along with a large skimmer on a 39 gallon tank that I have for my son. He is two small triggers and a small puffer. I have the larger equipment to help with the bio load. I just rinse the sponge from the Aquaclear in salt water once a week and things are fine. I also use the Aquaclear for the charcoal. Sometime next year, I will upgrade him to a larger tank with a small sump.

About 24 years ago, before sumps were popular, I was using a canister filter and a undergravel filter system in a 100 gallon which also had triggers. I never had any problems with that either. However, I cleaned the canister every week.

I am not in any way a big fan of canister filters, but they can work if you are willing to stay on top of them. Problem is that when they go neglected, they end up doing more harm than good.

I recently set-up a large 220 gallon display tank where I am using a sump set-up. I now prefer the sump set-ups! They are so easy to use and your tank does not have hoses and heaters in it.

Vince

 

[clines4]

I have been reading this information and, well, I am not sure how to take it. I dont have to run a filter on my 90 gallon min-reef tank with a few fish? What will remove the occasional bit of debris, dirt, etc, that shows up? My live rock should be all the filter I need along with a skimmer, which I have? I would love for this to be true, I have a Eheim 2217 Detritus Reactor. I was eager and inexperienced a few years ago, Iv'e learned a lot since then. I just keep it cleaned frequently, but feed me some more info please?

 

[Whys]

Liverock and partial water changes are the primary filters in reef aquariums. Some hobbyists don't even need a skimmer, but it is highly recommended by the vast majority to use one. Carbon is optional. GFO is optional. UV is optional. A refugium is optional. Macro-Algae, such as Chaeto, is optional. A sandbed is optional. Optional components can be added as they become necessary.

 

[clines4]

I would like more info from anyone willing to go into more detail about this no mechanical filter scenario. I have biological via live rock, protein skimmer, aeration/water movement powerheads, but what about solid and or large particles in water column that is normally removed from my Nitrate Reactor, uh, I mean canister filter?

 

[fishtk75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14450868#post14450868 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Whys
The issue with bio-balls, as I understand it, is too much oxygen coming into contact with the bacteria. Liverock that is completely submerged doesn't have this problem, BUT... if you put liverock in a canister then the increased flow results in a much greater contact of oxygenated water on the bacteria's surface, and this can create much the same result as bio-balls in a wet/dry trickle filter.

Canisters themselves are also well known for collecting debris and becoming nitrate factories all on their own.

Liverock submerged in a sump is usually fine and can be beneficial.

Thank for your feed back something less to worry about.

 

[fishtk75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14453291#post14453291 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clines4
I would like more info from anyone willing to go into more detail about this no mechanical filter scenario. I have biological via live rock, protein skimmer, aeration/water movement powerheads, but what about solid and or large particles in water column that is normally removed from my Nitrate Reactor, uh, I mean canister filter?

I asked the last member that is Emster was January 2009 Tank of the Month. I saw his sump and asked him and he has no mechanical filter in his sump and has not cleaned it out for years and said it works ok.

 

[calli]

I just ditched my Canister Filter too... Going only with a Skimmer..

Just spend a little more on live rock and get closer to 1.5 lbs per gallon.

Does it really hurt to go over that to say 2 lbs per gallon?

 

[Heinz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14453852#post14453852 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by calli
I just ditched my Canister Filter too... Going only with a Skimmer..

Just spend a little more on live rock and get closer to 1.5 lbs per gallon.

Does it really hurt to go over that to say 2 lbs per gallon?

i dont think you need more LR, 2 lbs/g would be a lot,

a good skimmer and good flow is the key, no need for a "berlin wall" in your tank

 

[Heinz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14453291#post14453291 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clines4
I would like more info from anyone willing to go into more detail about this no mechanical filter scenario. I have biological via live rock, protein skimmer, aeration/water movement powerheads, but what about solid and or large particles in water column that is normally removed from my Nitrate Reactor, uh, I mean canister filter?

if your water is not clear, your skimmer is not working good enough,

 

[calli]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14453981#post14453981 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Heinz
i dont think you need more LR, 2 lbs/g would be a lot,

a good skimmer and good flow is the key, no need for a "berlin wall" in your tank

Oh no I would not go over.. then you start running out ot swimming room.

 

[Heinz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14452884#post14452884 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Whys
Liverock and partial water changes are the primary filters in reef aquariums. Some hobbyists don't even need a skimmer, but it is highly recommended by the vast majority to use one. Carbon is optional. GFO is optional. UV is optional. A refugium is optional. Macro-Algae, such as Chaeto, is optional. A sandbed is optional. Optional components can be added as they become necessary.

thats a good post i just wanted to add,

ppl that run a skimmerless system with succes are usally proes, with many years of experience, monitoring there tank pretty close,
with low bioload, skimmerless systems are not that stable, need close attention to any changes,

skimmer gives you a more stable system, its more forgiven, you dont have to monitor it that close as without it,

dont get me wrong you still have to watch whats going on, but not that close as without a skimmer

i dont understand why ppl wanne run skimmerless, i was so happy when good skimmers came out, made my live so much easyer,

is like not wanting to use a car because walking works too, of course you can walk to NY from LA, but why would you ?

 

[Heinz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14454029#post14454029 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by calli
Oh no I would not go over.. then you start running out ot swimming room.

#
sorry, my post came over wrong,

i think 1.5 lbs/g is already to much, you dont need that much,

2 lbs/g would be way to much,

with so much lr, your tank looks like a wall, you dont need that much ,

also i think to much lr is not good

less flow or at least its harder to get good flow, more places to trap detrius,

 

[calli]

Well see I don't even have any live rock yet I am waiting.. about 2 weeks away I hope.. anyhow.. I have no idea what 65 lbs even looks like..

 

[Heinz]

i am in the works to set up my new tank right now, it will loke something like that, with open spaces,

this tank has no LR at all, 100% ceramic rocks

 

[UWUALineman]

I have been running a canister with carbon, nitrate sponge, and poly filter with what seems to be no adverse results. Tests are always in check with no nitrate problems. I am going to unplug my canister and see how the results are with only a skimmer. Maybe my hair algae may subside. Since adding my skimmer my water quality/clarity has improved tremendously.
Good thread.

 

[PRDubois]

Canister in NOT causing the Algae if you are cleaning at least once a month. I have NO hair algae in my tank and never have.
I run a HOB skimmer and a Fluval 405.

 

[Brent RH]

Whys: What do you think about these die hard canister folks just running carbon? Would be an expensive power head with carbon container.

 

[Whys]

Brent, those who do it just to polish off seem to get good results. They don't leave the canister connected but only run it for a few hours immediately before or after a waterchange. Seems like a good way to get the most use out of carbon in the shortest period of time and detritus doesn't build up in the canister.

Good of you to bring that up.

 

[lenny8671]

whys, im only new to sw and am in awe to some of the tanks on here. I understand that things take time in this hobby. ive taken my cannister filter offline and things look to be clearing up i.e. algea. I agree that its hard to let go of the mechanical filter when your so used to it with FW, but i trust 99% of the posters ive read on here.
i hope i can count on your sound advice when i need it again.....and i will lol