Skimmer Questions

[Bcollins111900]

I am looking to upgrade my skimmer on my 90 gallon from a knop to something a little more dated. Being out of the hobby for a little while, I have been reseraching skimmers and noticed there seems to be alot of advancements in technology. Bubble plates being one of them? How benificial are they not to mention what do they do? Do I look for a re-circ skimmer? Re-circ with a bubble plate? Guess I am looking for some guidance or some answers to what benifits these types of skimmer offer.

 

[hollback]

I'm a convert. I used to be all about the recirc needle wheels. I now have a GEO beckett skimmer and I doubt I will ever go back to a needle wheel. My beckett is about half the size of my old GEO skimmer and about 10x as efficient at pullin' the poop! I'll post a picture soon.

 

[sammie]

I'm of the same opinion as Jason. I've had a MRC beckett first and thought the new technology would be better and got a GEO recirc type and have had numerous issues with it handling my system. I've since went back to a custom GEO beckett and I'm glad I did as the amount of poop extraction is amazing.

 

[MarineFishGuy]

How many Watts are the pumps for your Beckett drawing Jason and Sammie?

Since you need a large pressure rated pump, I would think it would be high compared to a Needle Wheel skimmer.

As I recall Joe is running a Pan World 250 on his beckett skimmer. I am using that same pump as a return pump for my 2 display tanks and a frag tank.
It draws around 365W.

My Dual Recirc Mesh Modded skimmer pulls around 180W total including the feed pump.
I am getting around 75SCFH in the 12" diameter 24" tall Main Body with a 4" diameter neck. It could handle up to 100scfh in the body chamber.
It is pulling some really nasty stuff out right now.

The Mesh Mod made a HUGE difference. It has been 6 months and I have not had to redo the mesh yet.
I attribute that to the fact I used the Flatback PF4 mesh. It is fused together on one side making it more stable.

The Bubble plates just reduce turbulence in the main chamber. While helpful for maintaining a stable head, this can also be accomplished by diverting the recirc flow slightly downward using 45 degree elbows.

If I was buying a new skimmer right now it would be the MSX250A.
It is powered by an Askoll with a custom volute capable of 90 scfh at around 145W.
I have thought about buying the Pump and Volute for my skimmer body.
Maybe if one of my pumps dies I will plunk down the $300.

 

[StayPuft]

Do you happen to have a link to beckett skimmers with more info? I'm due for a new skimmer myself.

 

[sammie]

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PM-BLXL-2&Category_Code=PM

Here is a link that is similar to what I have but mine has a 12" diameter reaction chamber and an 8" riser along with a lot of options such as twist lock connections. Joe and myself have almost the same skimmer and were both using a PS 200 which pulls 290 watts and a little over 140SCFH of air.
Also because your putting so much water through the skimmer you get a much higher turnover rate thus more organics removed. The footprint is also smaller than my old Geo recirc needlewheel. Some people have a problem with using a pressure pump as they use a little more power but I guess you get what you pay for there as I would rather have a cheaper, smaller, more efficient skimmer and pay a little more for electric and have one pump to clean rather than multiple pumps. Also with a beckett you don't need a diffusion plate like you were asking about.

I've been thinking about the best combination of a skimmer and really I think the best thing would be a beckett style skimmer with a cone type riser. Something nobody is making....yet.

 

[uhuru]

Doesn't KZ make a line of beckett cone skimmers?

 

[hollback]

Ken,
I run the Pan World 100PX-X and it is draws about 180w, same as your skimmer. My skimmer can pull gallon of "coffee" looking skimmate in about 1.5 days. It would take about 2.5 weeks to pull a gallon of the same color skimmate with my old mesh mod recirc and it was cream of the crop. You might want to try one out before deciding that the mesh mod is king.

 

[RokleM]

True Jason, but Ken's numbers are a very poor comparison in regards to needlewheel vs beckett in terms of watts, if we want to use that as an efficiency rating. Ken's setup is relatively inefficient in comparison to most modern pumps used in the last few years. 0.41 SCFH per watt in his case. In contrast, I'm at 140-150+ SCFH at 150w with my Dart and feed pump @ 0.93 to 1.0. Many decent new pumps on smaller skimmers are pulling near 1.3-5, over triple Ken's numbers. So assuming Bcollins111900 is buying something newer of quality and has a budget that fits some of the recent advancements, I'm not sure how Ken's numbers apply at all. But the point could be argued that a modern recirc has the potential of using less watts than a beckett.

However.... Watts and SCFH isn't the end all be all deciding factor for performance and skimmate production, that's for sure.

I've debated trying one at some point, but the recirc needlewheel style have always done pretty well for me. It would be interesting to steal Jason's or something for a week to see what it could do when up against a system previous run on a large recirc needlewheel.

 

[MarineFishGuy]

I never stated the Mesh Mod was King. I said the Mesh Mod was a distinct improvement over a Needle Wheel.

I built a Becket skimmer, but could not get it to perform since I did not have a Pressure Pump for it.

The volume/color of Skimmate is not a direct measure of the organic content.
If you want a more accurate comparison of content you would want to allow the water to evaporate and compare the weight of what remains.

Ideally you would also want a breakdown by percentage of the compounds it contains, but we do not possess the equipment necessary to do that.

I am not saying your skimmer does not perform well, only that comparisons of skimmers are often based on observation of characteristics that are subjective and not quantitative.

For example you and I may look at the same skimmer cup and perceive the color and density differently.
A photo analysis with some type of density meter could remove a lot of the subjectivity, but most people do not do that.

I am running 140W for my Recirc Pumps, 180W was with the feed pump.
Erik is right, my pumps are not as efficient as newer models. I am using Ocean Runner 3700s because that is what came with the setup.
I considered replacing them, but the cost and the fact I run my skimmer in sump has kept me from doing that so far.

I have gotten as high as 80scfh at 130W, but in general those are the best numbers and not indicative of every day usage.

The Askoll is my top choice, but at $300, I have not been able to justify the cost.
I would like to run a Reeflo with the modded Needle Wheel from Reef Specialty, but I do not have the space to put that pump setup in my sump room.

Which brings up another consideration. What size are your Becket skimmers? In space constrained situations, I think Recirc Needle/Mesh has the advantage. When Space is not an issue, Becketts may be able to outperform.

From what I have read, Becketts perform better in larger sizes and would not do as well in under cabinet configurations.

I think it is fair to say what works well in one person's setup may not work or fit in another person's setup.

I asked my questions of you and Sammie since you have more experience than I do running a Beckett.

 

[hollback]

The volume/color of Skimmate is not a direct measure of the organic content.

I am not saying your skimmer does not perform well, only that comparisons of skimmers are often based on observation of characteristics that are subjective and not quantitative.

For example you and I may look at the same skimmer cup and perceive the color and density differently.

I'm not talking about a comparison between my skimmer and someone else's. I'm talking about between my old needle wheel recirc and my new beckett. My skimmate comparison is completely valid. Color of skimmate is obviously organics being removed. Therefore, same color should mean similar amount of organics. That being said, I can pull way more of the same color skimmate with my beckett than my needle wheel.

Which brings up another consideration. What size are your Becket skimmers? In space constrained situations, I think Recirc Needle/Mesh has the advantage. When Space is not an issue, Becketts may be able to outperform.

From what I have read, Becketts perform better in larger sizes and would not do as well in under cabinet configurations.

I think it is fair to say what works well in one person's setup may not work or fit in another person's setup.

I asked my questions of you and Sammie since you have more experience than I do running a Beckett.

In my case you have this backwards. My beckett is less than half the height of my needle wheel.

 

[jh2pizza]

OK, I will chime in here for a second. Im not as smart as some of you folks with all your numbers and comparisons, but I can share a couple of things about the beckett skimmer. Yes, mine will not fit in an under cabinet set up, nor would I want it in my living room due to the stench and noise, but as far as organic content of the skimate? I run it fairly dry, I pull about 1.75 gals a week of crap out of the waste collector, My wife yells at me if I empty it while she is home and its in the basement. I can tell you that top of the 6" neck has between 3/16" to 1/4" of good old ol green organic muck that I have to manually clean out and this bad stuff. The other thing I love about it is the fact that I do not have to play with it all the time to get it to work. I am not home much, but I never have to worry about it.

As far as Power usage? I consider this a mini stimulas package. I am keeping and creating as many jobs this year for AEP and the ol Pres has created from spending billions of dollars on road work projects.

( no this is not a political digg, I just spend too much money on electric.)

 

[Shark Keeper]

I currently run a modded Euro Reef 12-2 and have talked to Geo about a beckett which I plan to switch to May to July timeframe.

Just saw Hollback's skimmer and jakano has a GEO beckett as well and they are beasts!

 

[oldreefer76]

I have run both types of skimmers and to be honest the beckett was easier to maintain and seemed to pull alot more air, I can not say 1 out performed the other though as both were over sized for the bio loads I ran them on....so when we do upgrade next year we will probably contact Geo about an appropriate sized beckett to work on a 24x24x18 cube as for energy useage that is 1 of those things in this hobby that is the least of our worries, I missed our beckett on the last tank

 

[Canarygirl]

does anyone have a pic of a Geo beckett skimmer they can post? The Geo web page for skimmer says "under construction."

 

[kaiserkid]

I dont believe in skimmers. I manually pour my water through coffee filters.

 

[CleveYank]

I've only used 3 skimmer types so far. Airpump driven Airstones (remember that?), mazzi and now becketts.

I find that to keep things rolling consistant I have to put a stream of freshwater through my beckett injector every 3 days to 4 days to keep things rolling consistantly. Maybe the 2 others and 1 I'm currently running are bad beckett designs with this clogging aspect? I have had a tee with a timer and little pump for automated flushing as well.
None of the becketts clog as much as the stones and mazzi's, but clog with salt at the air input site nonetheless.

Becketts may outperform things on the onset? But I would tend to think that recircs do not require this flushing. My friend with his reeflo 250 doesn't have to worry about the air input clogging so often and he cannot say enough about his happiness with the performance of that skimmer. But that's just one design of recirc so who knows? I have seen some of the recircs with the 3 and 5 glorified powerhead pumps hanging off of them and those just look like fragile and troublesome. Bump a pump or a pump dies and your skimmer is out of action. And the whole aspect of a recirc unless you can run gravity flow from an overflow to feed it in addition to the recirc pump depending upon the design would appear not electrical usage friendly.

Reminds me of t5 v MH. Whatever gets you there is what counts.

 

[Reefdiver72]

This is why people think this hobby is so hard.

 

[jakano]

CleveYank I don't have a bit of the clogging problems people say that comes with a Beckett skimmer. I only clean my beckett injector maybe once a month. I have my air meter right beside the skimmer and every time I am in my fish room I check the air intake and it is always at a constant 95-100 scfh. You should try a prefilter or something in your pump intake it might stop your issue.

 

[Canarygirl]

Jakano,

I would appreciate reading more about your skimmer. Could you point me to another thread, link, or just tell me what the make, model and/or specs are?

Thanks!