flipsideleo
New member
It's a Reef Octopus DDNW-150 Recirculating skimmer. They are pretty decent protein skimmers.
Skimmerless: who's doing it? pros and cons
- Thread starter rick12
- Start date
BananaSuit
New member
It seems like quite a few people have had success without using a skimmer, but would it be wise for a beginner to start without a skimmer?
It may encourage you to foster the husbandry skills that are going to ultimately make or break you. A skimmer can be nice, but I like the idea of learning to do it all yourself and then make life easier down the road when you really understand what the skimmer is doing and why. Otherwise, if you run into a problem that the skimmer had been hiding or preventing for a while, you may not have the understanding or experience to recognize/rectify the situation.
Just my .02
Just my .02
srusso
Active member
2009
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2
"...perhaps one of the more interesting observations to emerge from these studies is the fact that all four skimmers tested removed only 20 - 30% of the total organics present in authentic reef tank water."
2010
Follow up...
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature
"None of the skimmers tested removed more than 35% of the extant TOC, leading to the conclusion that bubbles are really not a very effective medium for organic nutrient removal."
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2
"...perhaps one of the more interesting observations to emerge from these studies is the fact that all four skimmers tested removed only 20 - 30% of the total organics present in authentic reef tank water."
2010
Follow up...
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature
"None of the skimmers tested removed more than 35% of the extant TOC, leading to the conclusion that bubbles are really not a very effective medium for organic nutrient removal."
Foam refractionation grabs primarily amphipathic organic compunds( those with a postive and negative pole with the molecule) which get trapped in the air water interface. Changing the organics via organic carbon dosing enhances the process as bacteria that breakdown some of the non refractory organics fit that profile. Granulated activated carbon(gac) exports other oganics too. Some folks use ozone to breakdown down organics and make them more susceptible to removal by gac.
The most interesting things I took from the study cited and the other work at the University of Pennsylvania was the relatively equal performance of very expensive and much less expensive skimmers and the negative effects of high TOC( total organic carbon) on a reef tank at least for certain corals.
The most interesting things I took from the study cited and the other work at the University of Pennsylvania was the relatively equal performance of very expensive and much less expensive skimmers and the negative effects of high TOC( total organic carbon) on a reef tank at least for certain corals.
Where are you going?
Turf algae and macro algae do what they do( use inorganic phosphate and nitrogen and produce organics via photosynthesis) and skimmers do something else( remove organics, some metals, etc. and provide aeration). Simple really.
ReeferKimberly
Marley & Me
My 10 gallon has no skimmer, or fuge, or anything but a penguin bio filter rated for a larger tank. It's a super easy tank to take care of, even with a ton of coral. Weekly changes and good salt = I don't have to dose anything but the occasional baking soda and all my levels are great. Just tested nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, phosphate and KH (I don't usually test much of anything, but I took water in to the reef shop today). Nitrate was less than 10, KH was a tiny bit low so I am going to add a tiny bit more baking soda each week. Ammonia and Nitrite were zero, phosphate was very very low.
The whole reason I went with a smaller tank for now was to avoid equipment. Works for me. I am losing a war coral slowly and a scoli, but I am thinking they just don't like their placement because everything else (over 30 corals) is fine.
(I sometimes use activated carbon in the filter but not always, I just have a LOT of rock and do a weekly small WC)
The whole reason I went with a smaller tank for now was to avoid equipment. Works for me. I am losing a war coral slowly and a scoli, but I am thinking they just don't like their placement because everything else (over 30 corals) is fine.
(I sometimes use activated carbon in the filter but not always, I just have a LOT of rock and do a weekly small WC)
Michigan Mike
Freedom costs a buckofive
Chuck the sump, screw the skimmer..keep up your water changes, you'll be a winner!
Smile!
Smile!
srusso
Active member
Where are you going?
Turf algae and macro algae do what they do( use inorganic phosphate and nitrogen and produce organics via photosynthesis) and skimmers do something else( remove organics, some metals, etc. and provide aeration). Simple really.
They produce "living" organics... Which are harvested weekly.... Simple really
jwoyshnar
Active member
Where are you going?
Turf algae and macro algae do what they do( use inorganic phosphate and nitrogen and produce organics via photosynthesis) and skimmers do something else( remove organics, some metals, etc. and provide aeration). Simple really.
I figured it was another "algae scrubbers don't work" thread. We could expand on your list. Algae scrubbers also add aeration, remove CO2, removes metals and what we are using it for, the removal of nitrates and phosphates.
Skimmers remove SOME organics, some metals, do provide aeration and remove a lot of coral food. The question I ask is why would you put food in your for your fish and coral to have your skimmer pull it right out?
I feed a ton of food each day. When I was running a good skimmer and relied on live rock to pull out n and p I couldn't feed hardly at all. As soon as I got my skimmer running, I can over feed each day and not worry about it. My clean up crew consists of a few red and blue legged crabs and that is it in a tank with a total aquarium volume of almost 300 gallons. NO SNAILS at all. They starve in my tank. I have to clean the glass once or twice a month. But I guess they don't work.
:lol2:Here is a good article
http://www.physicsegypt.org/epc08/epc823.pdf
ReeferKimberly
Marley & Me
ReeferBatman
New member
Over 1 year old reef tank (3k invested) Always been skimmerless
I rely upon good water movement with lots of live-rock [75 pounds in a 55 gallon tank], a good canister filter, and 50% water changes every 2-3 weeks.
As others have said, Skimmers are almost too good IMO, they take out stuff Corals could otherwise eat and use...
I rely upon good water movement with lots of live-rock [75 pounds in a 55 gallon tank], a good canister filter, and 50% water changes every 2-3 weeks.
As others have said, Skimmers are almost too good IMO, they take out stuff Corals could otherwise eat and use...
Michigan Mike
Freedom costs a buckofive
My tank is too clean as it is now.i wish I didn't have to target feed so much..oh well I like having 0 nitrates and phosphates though...
They produce "living" organics... Which are harvested weekly.... Simple really
No, organics are not living things. They are bound carbon atoms to hydrogen and sometimes nitrogen too. Typically, they include things like polymers( starches) monomers( sugars) ,ethanol and acetic acid organized into simple and very complex compunds. There are tens of thousands if not millions of them in a reef tank. They all contain energy used by living things caprtured in the molecular bonds( think calories) Some are useful to living things and some are harmful. Some discolor the water. Some breakdown readily by bacterial activity and some are refractory, resitive to bacterial activity.
Algae like other pohotosynthetic organisms will make them from CO2 ,water and light. It will use them for energy and take up nitrogen and phosphate as well as some small amount of needed trace and minor elements it needs. All of that can be harvested.
However, algae is a living thing and interacts with it's environment. It not only pulls things out of the water ; it puts things into it including: spores,exudate. allelopathic compounds , oxygen, excess CO2, unused trace elements and so on.
The net effect of macro or turf algae is an addition to the organics in the tank not a substraction.,even with dilligent harvesting. There are plenty of other organics that contribute to the to total particulate and dissolved organic level in a tank including foods and all the other photsynthetic organisms. The net effect of a skimmmer and/or gac is a substraction.
Managing organic levels is diificult because we can't meaure them with hobby grade equipment . Even if we could we would not have a clue as the what type of organics we were measuring. Some corals seem to like a heavier load( see post 22) and even then it depends on what those organics are. Alleopathic toxins would not be welcome for example. Others do not. If I put and sps into my well lit, skimmerless low NO3 and PO4 tank where discoma, rhaodactis, xenia, briarium, gorgonia,certain palythoa and leathers thrive, it will die.
Agae scrubbers and macro algae regugia do take up inorganic nitrogen and phospahte and are helpful, if run well in reducing those inroganic nutrients but they do not help the organics level, they add to it .
jwoyshnar
Active member
Jeez I better run home and take out the Sps out my tank that have been in there for some time now cause all of my other corals are thriving too.!!! You are aware that there are many of us that run skimmerless algae scrubber tanks with Sps along with other corals? My reef is mostly soft and Lps and I have and had Sps thrive also.
You also realize there is two sticky threads above this one that are solely for algae scrubbers? What are they for, the basic one is for people under 1000 posts to say they don't work and the advanced is for people over 1000 posts to say they don't work? There is also a whole website dedicated to algae scrubbers. Trust me, they do work and work well. All of the things you talk about may sound impressive but don't take place at all. Can you show any proof of what you say? The only proof I need is what I see when I go in my house.
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