So do we want nutrients or not?

[warnutts]

Hi been doing alot of research on keeping sps.

Still confused on the whole nutrient thing. Do we want to achieve 0 phosphate and 0 nitrate?

I've also read many posts of bleached out corals that are supposedly not getting enough nutrients.

I thought no nutrients is a good thing?

 

[franklypre]

It's a balance, you really want a little N&P but not so much to where algae grows. If you were to achieve 0.0 levels coral wouldn't do well.

 

[planedoc]

Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and bacteria are part of the cycle dealing with fish poop decaying food and decaying /dead life whether fish or fauna. I don't think corals of any type benefit from either of the 4. Well maybe bacteria as it keeps the others levels low. Nutrients are food like phytoplankton, cyclopleez and fish food , or minerals like calcium, magnesium and other trace elements. Sps and all corals need nutrients but don't like high levels of ammonia nitrates other nitrites. Some soft corals like "dirty water" not for the higher nitrates but for the extra food in the system they can feed on. Thats what creates high levels is extra food that is not consumed.

 

[dowtish]

When it comes to SPS you need stability when it comes to ALK, CAL, and MAG. And you also want to have the means to export nutrients out of the tank, while at the same time feeding the tank. If you strive for zero, your corals will starve, bleach, be pale etc.

IMO, there are many ways to achieve low nutrients, but not feeding isnt one of them. Your tank inhabitants will suffer. With methods like carbon dosing, zeovit, bio pellets, or just GFO, you can get away from the idea that you have to just feed your fish every other day. I run bio pellets, which is just a solid form of carbon dosing, and I feed heavily every single day, multiple times a day.

And also, just because my nitrate test kits says zero, I dont believe it. It is a hobby grade test kit, and with the amount I feed there is no way it is zero. Same goes for phos as well.

 

[dvanacker]

I think trying to keep PO4 and NO3 ultra low with quality filtration is good as long as you are feeding the tank enough.

The problem is when people have good quality filtration yet dont feed enough. The corals can pale out or starve.

I have tested my tank at 0.0ppm PO4 with a hanna and .2ppm nitrate on salifert and everything was doing great. I do religous water changes and have quality filtration, yet feed very with a decent size fish/bioload.

And even at these low levels algae like valonia (bubble algae) still grow. My clean up crew and tangs take care of it though. If you cant grow some algae than you likely cant grow corals. After all its the algae in the coral that allows it to grow.

 

[dowtish]

is there an echo in here???

 

[dvanacker]

is there an echo in here???

Sorry for trying to help

... sometimes it helps to see the same answer from multiple sources to affirm you have the right answer.

 

[dowtish]

Sorry for trying to help

... sometimes it helps to see the same answer from multiple sources to affirm you have the right answer.

No not at all man. That was my exact point. Seeing multiple responses that say very similar things is how I base whether its good info or not.

Didn't mean that any other way.

 

[Touring]

isint that why you say


+2?

 

[Arkayology]

Na and Phos are not at 0.0 in the ocean, so we should try to replicate it as closely as possible in our tanks. I think you should shoot for <8ppm nitrate and somewhere between .02-.04 phos.

 

[Dog boy Dave]

There are a lot of factors under the generic term called "nutrients". Truth is, we don't really understand what the effect of the different components are in our different tank environments. Flow, light intensity, even ph and alkalinity levels affect the way your system and animals is going to respond to different levels. The important thing is to set up a system that you can manage so that after you find the sweet spot of your system you are able to manage the nutrient levels so you can maintain that sweet spot for your guys.

I have been keeping corals since 1987 and I have run tanks at every nutrient level you could imagine. They can fail because they are too clean or too dirty. The sweet spot varies according to the animals you are keeping and the "energy level" of the tank. I find that the higher energy your tank has the more nutrients the system can process. The natural reef environment is a high energy area. You have wave action, heavy sunlight, currents, all of which contribute to the high energy available to break down chemical bonds. In my experience its not the level of nutrients in the tank so much, its keeping your system active enough so that all of your nutrients get processed. You have problems when there is a bottle neck in your processing system that allows some component of your nutrient system to build up to harmful levels. Which nutrient this is going to be and the affect on your system will vary. The important thing is to learn to watch you system and notice the symptoms that something is out of balance. When you see this happening then use your tools to manage that parameter.

 

[Paul B]

I don't know but my nitrate is 40 and my PO4 is .25. All my corals are over 5 or 8 years old and most of the fish are spawning.

 

[dvanacker]

Na and Phos are not at 0.0 in the ocean, so we should try to replicate it as closely as possible in our tanks. I think you should shoot for <8ppm nitrate and somewhere between .02-.04 phos.

what? Randy Farley Holmes has statistics that put them a lot lower than your suggestions. In this article http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...issues/2004-05/rhf/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca He has seawater as containing NO3 as Variable (typically below 0.1 ppm) and PO4 as 0.005 ppm . Sounds pretty low to me.

 

[dvanacker]

I don't know but my nitrate is 40 and my PO4 is .25. All my corals are over 5 or 8 years old and most of the fish are spawning.

All due respect Paul, and you do have a wonderful mixed system, but I wouldnt want my SPS tank to look like your tank.

 

[Paul B]

but I wouldnt want my SPS tank to look like your tank.

I get that lot. :lol:

 

[Arkayology]

what? Randy Farley Holmes has statistics that put them a lot lower than your suggestions. In this article http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...issues/2004-05/rhf/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca He has seawater as containing NO3 as Variable (typically below 0.1 ppm) and PO4 as 0.005 ppm . Sounds pretty low to me.

I am not sure how Randy checks his phosphates, but .005ppm is way finer resolution than most hobbyists are able to calculate. .005ppm is too low for my tastes, but to each their own. Many zeo tank are kept somewhere between .02-.04 so that is what I shoot for (not trying to start a zeo arguement :debi

All due respect Paul, and you do have a wonderful mixed system, but I wouldnt want my SPS tank to look like your tank.

What's wrong with Paul's tank?

I get that lot. :lol:

:lmao:

 

[Paul B]

What's wrong with Paul's tank?

Nothing

 

[Allmost]

have to agree, while I like Paul's tank, its not an SPS tank and SPS in your tank arent doing well. ...

so different story with the biotope you are trying to duplicate than what we try to do here on SPS subforums.

 

[Arkayology]

have to agree, while I like Paul's tank, its not an SPS tank and SPS in your tank arent doing well. ...

Who's tank? Mine?

 

[Paul B]

Who's tank? Mine?

Probably mine. I will try to make it better. I blame that dam copperband butterfly, he is always screwing up my tank and getting me bad publicity :dance: