So fustrated about to give up on corals in general. Please save me

Another important possibility is the change in Chloramines. I would suggest you to check with the city officials and find out if the city is treating water with Chloramines.
 
Voodoojar said:
Any chance you could have other contaminants in there like a rusty piece of metal or maybeyour GFO reactor was turned on too high and shot FO all over your tank? Just a thought

Because if your parameters are what you say they are I dont see how all your coral could be so messed up?
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No metel other than whatever is part of the equipment. I was having same.problems before gfo and after, only ran it for a month andnits now offline, when I had it set up I rinsed and had flow where reactor just bubbeling on top per videos/reading.... ive tried 2 sets of salifert kits and hanna checkers for alk and phos and all read sameish. Lfs also tested along with sent sample to AWT i believe its spelled. All levels good other than touch high on silica
 
duyhuynh said:
Another important possibility is the change in Chloramines. I would suggest you to check with the city officials and find out if the city is treating water with Chloramines.
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I will call and check tomorrow. I know I checked when first started and they did not use chlorimines.
 
crawlerman said:
How about your refractometer? I've seen a few people have these hard to detect problems then find out their salinity was way off. Water chemistry and equipment seem on point, so maybe something like that or contaminant.
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Checked refractometer today with Rodi water got zero. Then with salinity solution (35ppt) all seems ok
 
duyhuynh said:
Another important possibility is the change in Chloramines. I would suggest you to check with the city officials and find out if the city is treating water with Chloramines.
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I did notice today for the first time in awhile one of my chalices that was slowly receding had its feeder tenticles out. Havent seen any negative effects of taking carbon off and running atis full 7hrs with no kessils. My gorgonian grows another branch every other month. Maybe all have a gorgonian dominated tank lol
 
GSM mentioned it above, but when I first read your post the Reef Savor rock jumped out. While I know it's probably fine for some, I have first hand seen this same exact problem.

My good buddy had a tank just like yours, rock steady Params, good equipment ect, and every sps he put in would stn over a period of a few weeks. Some acros even RTN within a few days.

I tried to help him come up with solution and we tried everything. To keep long story short we knew it was possible for the rocks to leach po4, but he had cured them for way longer than they needed to be so it wasn't the first thought.

At the end of the day the rock was replaced, ran gfo heavy for a few weeks and put in A Purple Reef rocks. Let the system go for a month and tried sps and it's been doing fine since.

All his Lps and zoa did fine before switching out rocks, it was just an sps problem.
 
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I will stop dosing ALK, it is just like alkalinity burn. You can keep dosing Ca and Carbon source (If you have). I have same situation as you before. I dosed 1 ALK per day, the ALK is steady as 8-9, but those SPS seems bad.
I may say even if you over dose ALK in a prolonged period, you can still keep a good ALK parameter but it will slowly kill your coral.
Now I just dose CaCl2, Kalk and Vodka. You have say Kalk has increased ALK, but the mechanism is different, in my experience.
 
chrisifer said:
I will stop dosing ALK, it is just like alkalinity burn. You can keep dosing Ca and Carbon source (If you have). I have same situation as you before. I dosed 1 ALK per day, the ALK is steady as 8-9, but those SPS seems bad.
I may say even if you over dose ALK in a prolonged period, you can still keep a good ALK parameter but it will slowly kill your coral.
Now I just dose CaCl2, Kalk and Vodka. You have say Kalk has increased ALK, but the mechanism is different, in my experience.
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I asked my LFS about alk burn and he assures me its STN and not alk burn. The receeding hardly ever starts at the tips. Very random places that start dying off.
Im gonna keep a 7hr light cycle for awhile with no GAC, 8ml of NOPOX and see what happens
 
BryanS4 said:
GSM mentioned it above, but when I first read your post the Reef Savor rock jumped out. While I know it's probably fine for some, I have first hand seen this same exact problem.

My good buddy had a tank just like yours, rock steady Params, good equipment ect, and every sps he put in would stn over a period of a few weeks. Some acros even RTN within a few days.


I tried to help him come up with solution and we tried everything. To keep long story short we knew it was possible for the rocks to leach po4, but he had cured them for way longer than they needed to be so it wasn't the first thought.

At the end of the day the rock was replaced, ran gfo heavy for a few weeks and put in A Purple Reef rocks. Let the system go for a month and tried sps and it's been doing fine since.

All his Lps and zoa did fine before switching out rocks, it was just an sps problem.
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I did consider this but Ive never had an algae breakout other than the typical glass and cyano once thats completly gone... never alage build up on rocks and would figure after 10 months it would be done leaching by now ? Ill keep this thought though and maybe something I look into replaceing in the future
 
I think you are going in the right direction with light and slightly lower alk.
Water changes never hurt, that's for sure.
You say you are using nopox at 8ml/day, you clean glass every 5 days and N is 1-2ppm and p is 0-.03.
That is super low nutrients, imo. With high alk, not something sps like very much..
The margin of error for the Hanna checker is +\- .04 if I remember..
Sounds to me like you are using too much nopox.. you could possibly have no p at all..
If I were you, I'd cut the nopox dose in half and see where nutrients go..
I'd shoot for twice as much n and a consistent reading on the Hanna of between .03 and .07 for p..
And then wait several weeks for improvements on the sps because it often takes some time for sps to start to like you again.

And don't forget, you have been switching things up, lately and may alter things even more.. once things are stable, it'll take weeks for the corals to begin to respond positively.
 
GSMclowns said:
You have a very good system here.
First of all, most new reefers try to do too many things at once. There is nothing wrong with that but if something goes wrong, it is very hard to figure out the reasons.

So lets start with your light.
8 bulbs ATI sunpower is more than enough light, so take out the LED for now. All 8 bulbs should be all ON for at least 6 hours a day. So for now, keep it simple. Turn all ON for 6-8 hours and keep it there.

ALK, CAL and MAG
The most important thing is ALK, so keep your around 9 which is what you already have. So just keep it stable like that. Cal isn't too important. Anything above 380 is good. Don't let it go up too much above 450 or your pumps will clog a lot faster. If it goes up too high by accident, no harm is done. just let it go down normally by not dosing anymore. MAG is of no important right now if you change water regularly. Don't need to test for it or even dose anything for it. Keep it simple.

PH: Unless your house is air tight in the winter or you are using a Calcium reactor, you don't need to worry about PH. Leave it alone. A little bit up and down during the day and night won't kill your corals. So don't try to manipulate it or control it.

The most difficult issue to address here is the nutrient export.
If you don't run GFO and NOPOX, then your tank will be over run with algae. But if you run GFO and NOPOX, then you run into the risk of stripping too much nutrient from the water and this could kill your corals. So take a step back and only run those things at minimal. I don't run NOPOX, so I can't comment on it.. But for GFO, I only run 1/2 cups of regular Bulkreefsupply GFO in a reactor and change it out every week and I have the same tank 120 gallons full of sps (4'x22x2' dimensions). You mentioned that you run GFO but you didn't say how much you are running and how often you change them out.

Carbon: Too much carbon and run too fast will kill your corals.. Carbon isn't really needed. So as a test, turn off carbon for now.

Is there a local club that you can join?
Join the club and make some friends. Ask the more experiences reefer to look at the system for you. It is alot easier to help if they can see the system.

One of the problem is bad rocks. If your rocks leak phosphate, it will make it alot harder for you to battle algae and grow SPS. The line between running enough GFO to control the algae and running too much that strip the water clean is very small. So you could be crossing that line and kill the corals without knowing it.
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This is all great advice, I'm glad to hear you are following it.

Alkalinity at 9-10 shouldn't really be a problem. I'm not sure why people say this is such a big deal. Just keep it steady.

Massive water changes with really good, clean water and good salt mix is always a good thing.

You should consider getting rid of everything that isn't SPS corals. No softies, no LPS. Don't try to make everything happy, just try to make one thing happy. Then build from there.

I suggest getting rid of all additives (except alk, calcium, and magnesium), and reduce the number of fish. Don't be too afraid of algae, it comes and goes on it's own cycle. If you can't grow algae, you can't grow corals. I clean my glass 2-3 times per day, and I don't even have any fish.

Simplify, simplify, simplify. You are going in the right direction. I agree with Reefmutt that you've made a lot of changes (for the better) and the corals need time to adjust and enjoy the new conditions.

Don't get any new SPS until the ones you have stop dying. Then get one new one, just to test things out.

If you have diatoms, then that mean the nitrogen cycle is going through massive swings, or the tank is still very new. Diatoms really only occur very early in the nitrogen cycle. Then hair algae, then coralline. When your coralline explodes, then you know you can add SPS successfully.

Can you post some pics of your whole system? You never know what someone will spot that can help.

Good luck! Don't give up! :beer:
 
Esper said:
This is all great advice, I'm glad to hear you are following it.

Alkalinity at 9-10 shouldn't really be a problem. I'm not sure why people say this is such a big deal. Just keep it steady.

Massive water changes with really good, clean water and good salt mix is always a good thing.

You should consider getting rid of everything that isn't SPS corals. No softies, no LPS. Don't try to make everything happy, just try to make one thing happy. Then build from there.

I suggest getting rid of all additives (except alk, calcium, and magnesium), and reduce the number of fish. Don't be too afraid of algae, it comes and goes on it's own cycle. If you can't grow algae, you can't grow corals. I clean my glass 2-3 times per day, and I don't even have any fish.

Simplify, simplify, simplify. You are going in the right direction. I agree with Reefmutt that you've made a lot of changes (for the better) and the corals need time to adjust and enjoy the new conditions.

Don't get any new SPS until the ones you have stop dying. Then get one new one, just to test things out.

If you have diatoms, then that mean the nitrogen cycle is going through massive swings, or the tank is still very new. Diatoms really only occur very early in the nitrogen cycle. Then hair algae, then coralline. When your coralline explodes, then you know you can add SPS successfully.

Can you post some pics of your whole system? You never know what someone will spot that can help.

Good luck! Don't give up! :beer:
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Im gonna do 2 30gal water changes between today and tomorrow. Ill be gone for a week so ill let that settle them do another when I come back. I use bionic 4 stage salt mix and double check my readings to match my tank 9.4ish/440/1350ish. I use salifert test kits and double check alk with hanna.

I cut my nopox dose down to 4ml this morning and ill keep it there for awhile to see how that goes.

I have recently started getting coraline everywhere. Probably in the last month. Back glass is just about covered and im due to scrape the sides and front

Diatoms only in lower flow areas on sand bed and right at the base of rock and the sand bed.

Im not putting anymore SPS in there until im positive Im good. My LFS gave me a free stick to see how it goes since making some changes. Im also setting up a coral qt and will do 6 weeks of qt for now on with sps. Even then ill add 1 or 2 at a time to make sure they make it a couole weeks. I will post some pictures when I get home
 
Mjrjj23 said:
I did consider this but Ive never had an algae breakout other than the typical glass and cyano once thats completly gone... never alage build up on rocks and would figure after 10 months it would be done leaching by now ? Ill keep this thought though and maybe something I look into replaceing in the future
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Fwiw my buddy had no algae issues either. He changed the rocks a year in, so can't speak for the 10 months you're in. Rock solid now.
 
 
Brs says to dose up to 1 dkh per day. I think that's too high a swing. Calculate and go slow in high flow area of sump. Lower lighting to reduce stress. Dose alk in am when ph is lowest. Ca in evening. As required, of course. Reduce additives, like mentioned above. Big alk adjusts seem to cause rtn'ing
 
Esper said:
Alkalinity at 9-10 shouldn't really be a problem. I'm not sure why people say this is such a big deal. Just keep it steady.


:beer:
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if you don't think alk of 9-10 is too high when nutrients are low you are a minority in that respect. There are many instances on this forum where people have had issues with alk in this range when nutrients are low.
 
I had posted a thread on a similar issue with my tank as you have. Everything was growing great then all of sudden everything crashed all at once. I couldn't get anything to grow and all my corals died of STN. I was doing everything to try and combat the issue like you and it turned out that was part of the problem. How I fixed this was I first did a 50% water change followed by daily feedings. I thawed the entire frozen cube of mysis and poured into my tank. I was so worried about the perfect parameters that before I was feeding every other day. Turned out this was problem number 1. Problem number 2 came around when I dropped in my GFO reactor when there were already almost no nutrients. This just about killed everything and what didn't die bleached out. Problem number 3 came into play with my cheap refractometer. I was getting reading of 35 ppt on salinity when in fact it was 29 ppt.

To hopefully make the most sense of it I doing so much it was killing my corals. Back off all little extras and do your daily feeding with 10% weekly water changes. Instead of dosing NPOX I would use ½ the recommend GFO to combat with algae issues to help build up your nutrient levels. Gradually increase your GFO slowly over time as nutrient levels rise from the daily feedings. Test your parameters weekly and change your GFO once depleted. Also not sure if your salt mix has trace elements but if not possibly look at a salt mix that does. I would stay on the dosing piece too if it's being depleted. Best thing you can do is have stable parameters. Lastly buy a good refractometer if you don't have one. I recently purchased the Milwaukee MA887 and can't say a bad thing about it.

My last piece of advice and I have heard this on here many times. Nothing happens over night in our hobby so be patient.
 
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