Solaris Led lighting systems
- Thread starter jmccalip
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Beenalongtime79
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skydancer,
You know it!!! Haha
You know it!!! Haha
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Energy = Heat
375W is 375W Light spill is a function of the relfector design. The visible light is only part of the energy. You are correct, the LEDs do give off more of their energy in the form of visible (to the human eye) light. However everything radiated from the bulb falls someplace on the electromagnetic spectrum.
Your microwave heats food, but you can not see the "light".
UV light causes plastics to yellow, but you can not see the "light".
Blue light is visible but has much less photosynthetic use than yellow light.
Black and White film is not sensitive to RED light.
Digital camera sensors do not see some laser lights.
etc
You speak of usable light... PAR is one of the ways we can look at a given light source and determien how much "usable" light it contains for corals or plants.
The wavelength of the light has a lot to do with how deep it can penetrate into a body of water. Some light sources are able to penetrate deep into a tank, others not as deep. The wavelength and intensity govern how far the light travels into the water. The LEDs do have some issues with regards to the intensity and the depth.
Yes, the bulb life and replacment cost are something that surely will need to be monitored. I would suggest (not just for you PFO guys) a PAR meter to track the fixtures intensity over the life of the installation. We spend all of this time trying to save money and get the most out of our lights, but then run the bulbs until they are 50% or less efficient.
Bean
The Solaris system gives a much more even spread of the light. Since the LED's are more focused and they are in banks, the light seems brighter. I was using 2X150 DE's on a 54 corner, now this tank is 60X18X23, for 75 watts more power I gained a lot more light. Growth wise my Monti's are taking off, but that's not a fair measure, they grow no matter what. My Tort's are more finicky so we will see soon. Shimmer is great, but the Tunze's create whirlpools all over the surface so it should be.
Ive been following this thread for a while now because im interested in seeing how this technology turns out.
i run MH now, but im not on the LED or MH side(just info gathering) but im not getting these comments.
for what? terrestrial plants? the usability of light depends on the organisms using it. our aquatic animals(there symbiotic hosts) are much more adapted to using blue light, or fluorescing other spectrum's of light into blue to be used.
PAR is only a measure of "available" light. the usable light again depends on what is trying to use it. from the few spectral plots of LEDs ive seen they put out a very wide blue spectrum unlike the sharp peaks of MH(read more usable too more things)
correct! and Blue penetrates the deepest.
i run MH now, but im not on the LED or MH side(just info gathering) but im not getting these comments.
for what? terrestrial plants? the usability of light depends on the organisms using it. our aquatic animals(there symbiotic hosts) are much more adapted to using blue light, or fluorescing other spectrum's of light into blue to be used.
PAR is only a measure of "available" light. the usable light again depends on what is trying to use it. from the few spectral plots of LEDs ive seen they put out a very wide blue spectrum unlike the sharp peaks of MH(read more usable too more things)
correct! and Blue penetrates the deepest.
badpacket
Premium Member
Re: Pulse Width Modulation
Re: Pulse Width Modulation
Just a note, PWM is nothing new. Not only does svengali's like Sfiligoi use PWM, but also almost every sort of control circuit imaginable. Here, take a look at what a $3 microcontroller can do...
http://science.slashdot.org/science/07/01/02/2156201.shtml
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCKJI8XaRrc&eurl=
PWM simply turns the LED on/off many times per second. You want it dimmer, you simply increase the duration of the off intervals. Or, you change the amount of current you pulse through the LED.
Heck, you can buy a $1 chip to do this all for you, designed especially for Luxeons, no Sfiligoi needed...
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3640
Sorry if this come across as off-topic, or too inside baseball, but it seemed like PWM was being trotted out like some exotic, new technology. Chevy's use PWM too
Re: Pulse Width Modulation
Just a note, PWM is nothing new. Not only does svengali's like Sfiligoi use PWM, but also almost every sort of control circuit imaginable. Here, take a look at what a $3 microcontroller can do...
http://science.slashdot.org/science/07/01/02/2156201.shtml
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCKJI8XaRrc&eurl=
PWM simply turns the LED on/off many times per second. You want it dimmer, you simply increase the duration of the off intervals. Or, you change the amount of current you pulse through the LED.
Heck, you can buy a $1 chip to do this all for you, designed especially for Luxeons, no Sfiligoi needed...
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3640
Sorry if this come across as off-topic, or too inside baseball, but it seemed like PWM was being trotted out like some exotic, new technology. Chevy's use PWM too
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
They are able to use blue light, that does not mean blue light is what they thrive on.
I don't even know how to respond to that. It would appear that your using the advanced aquarist article as a reference. You may want to note that the bulb being used as a MH reference was chosen for a reason
Why was a 10K bulb not used?Of course some photosynthetic organisms use different spectrums, but PAR is a good indication of what can be used. Lumens, Candles, Lux, CRI, Kelvin etc are all other ways of classifying light output or quality. We use PAR because it relates to what the corals or plants "see" and "use". You are refering to PUR when refering to the "usable" portion of the PAR. The higher the PAR, the better the light for our organisms. So it would follow that in most cases the higher the PAR, the higher the PUR.
Was that not already established several times in this thread?
If you go a dozen pages back you will find a long discussion on these topics (I belive hahnmeister was involved).
As the color of the bulb moves towards the RED end of the spectrum, PAR increases. A move towards the BLUE end of the spectrum will result in a decrease in PAR.
Moonlight penetrates deep into the ocean at night due to it's predominantly blue wavelength. I am fairly confident that not much photosynthesis goes on during that time.
Bean
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pjf
Premium Member
Aiming for PAR/PUR Is More Efficient
Aiming for PAR/PUR Is More Efficient
The Solaris was designed so that a larger portion of its light is photosynthetically usable. In contrast metal halides produce harmful sprectra, such as ultraviolet, that must be filtered. Since UV is not sufficiently filtered, harm done to corals results in more inefficiency.
Aiming for PAR/PUR is being more energy efficient.
Aiming for PAR/PUR Is More Efficient
The Solaris was designed so that a larger portion of its light is photosynthetically usable. In contrast metal halides produce harmful sprectra, such as ultraviolet, that must be filtered. Since UV is not sufficiently filtered, harm done to corals results in more inefficiency.
Aiming for PAR/PUR is being more energy efficient.
pjf
Premium Member
Re: Re: Pulse Width Modulation
Re: Re: Pulse Width Modulation
Re: Re: Pulse Width Modulation
While PWM is nothing new, it is not generally used in lighting. Many applications still use rheostats and save no electricity. The point that has apparently been lost is the fact that the PWM dimming method in the Solaris saves energy.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8884439#post8884439 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by badpacket
Just a note, PWM is nothing new. Not only does svengali's like Sfiligoi use PWM, but also almost every sort of control circuit imaginable.
Heck, you can buy a $1 chip to do this all for you, designed especially for Luxeons, no Sfiligoi needed...
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3640
Sorry if this come across as off-topic, or too inside baseball, but it seemed like PWM was being trotted out like some exotic, new technology. Chevy's use PWM too
Last edited:
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
I am glad you paid attention in science class, most people do not.
The plantlife on this planet is more concerned with the area from yellow to blue. (orange to violet really)
So yes the PFO unit puts out a peak in this area, and it is "wider" than that of a 20K MH bulb. But I think if you look at the bulbs the consistantly provide the best growth, you will notice that they are 6500K and 10,000K bulbs that DO NOT have a PEAK in the 450nm area! They actually put out a fiarly flat spectrum.
FWIW
The long wavelengths:
Red: can penatrate about 50 feet
Yellow: 98 feet
Orange: 164 feet
The green - violet wavelenghts are longer and penetrate deeper. Not much makes it past about 190 feet.
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/206/22/4041
I would also suggest a complete read of Sanjays LIGHT articles at reefkeeping.com
Bean
Let's not forget what color appeals to human eyes. When I dived around some reefs not long ago, I saw predominately blue color that coral and fish live in. If we completely duplicate such appearance in our homes, we can scare many guests away and have cops keep an eye on you all the time.
The Solaris spectrum maybe the better for coral growth, but I haven't seen a single picture that can come close to the vivid coloration provided by those MH-lit tanks. I thought one of the improvements worked on LED in the industry is to make it brighter and yes whiter.
The Solaris spectrum maybe the better for coral growth, but I haven't seen a single picture that can come close to the vivid coloration provided by those MH-lit tanks. I thought one of the improvements worked on LED in the industry is to make it brighter and yes whiter.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Re: Re: Re: Pulse Width Modulation
Re: Re: Re: Pulse Width Modulation
PWM is used on the LEDs because they are DC devices and respond well to PWM. We do somethign similar with AC lighting, it is called PAC (Phase Angle Control).
Almost all commercial dimmers and stage lighting work off of PAC dimmers...
so yes it has been around a LONG time and USED a LONG time.
Bean
Re: Re: Re: Pulse Width Modulation
PWM is used on the LEDs because they are DC devices and respond well to PWM. We do somethign similar with AC lighting, it is called PAC (Phase Angle Control).
Almost all commercial dimmers and stage lighting work off of PAC dimmers...
so yes it has been around a LONG time and USED a LONG time.
Bean
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Does being an "engineer" put a person on some other level of understanding that the rest of us can not achieve? Hrmmm.
Guys this has been fun... but it is getting silly.
pjf
Premium Member
Fatal Flaw
Fatal Flaw
The fatal flaw of MH lighting is the fact that it produces harmful spectra, such as ultraviolet, that must be filtered. Generating spectra that must be filtered is wasteful. Since UV is not sufficiently filtered, the harm done to corals results in greater inefficiency.
Fatal Flaw
The fatal flaw of MH lighting is the fact that it produces harmful spectra, such as ultraviolet, that must be filtered. Generating spectra that must be filtered is wasteful. Since UV is not sufficiently filtered, the harm done to corals results in greater inefficiency.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
"fatal flaw"? You make it sound like we all need to unplug or MH lamps immediately and rush to get those LEDs fired up.
No numbers, no referecne points, just marketing points losely based on science. Thus we have come full circle and are now once again back to the Bullet Points on the side of the box.
"The fatal flaw with BeanAnimal Beer is that it has more alchohol than Budweiser and that contributes to liver disease." But when you look at the real numbers, BeanAnimal Beer has 5.10 percent by volume and the Budweiser has 5.09 percent by volume.
FWIW, I never said that the LEDs were not more efficient.
No numbers, no referecne points, just marketing points losely based on science. Thus we have come full circle and are now once again back to the Bullet Points on the side of the box.
"The fatal flaw with BeanAnimal Beer is that it has more alchohol than Budweiser and that contributes to liver disease." But when you look at the real numbers, BeanAnimal Beer has 5.10 percent by volume and the Budweiser has 5.09 percent by volume.
FWIW, I never said that the LEDs were not more efficient.
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