Solaris Led lighting systems

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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8049407#post8049407 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pulse13
hahnmeister, the efficiency of high power LEDs is nowhere close to that of MH, its actually less than half. The differences seen between the Solaris fixture and MH fixtures has to do with the way the light is distributed, not due to the fact that the LEDs are more efficient in producing light. They are less than 50 lm/watt for the whites, and much less than that for blue, compared to 90-100lm/w for MH. Look at the data sheets on Lumileds website.
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Thats exactly what I am talking about. not so long ago this was true, but LED tech has advanced at such a pace that those numbers are already old. Current LED tech like that from Cree tech has resulted in LED's that produce well over 131 lumens per watt.

Not so long ago, it was only just over 100 lumens per watt. To give you an idea of how fast the technology is developing, here is a graph (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=29472)
whiteled.jpg


Predictions now are that LEDs will produce over 150 lumens per watt by 2010.
 
Bean and I had a similar exchange just a few months ago when someone asked if LEDs might be used to replace main lighting (its also the first place that PFO announced their new solaris to the best of my knowlege)...

heres the thread,
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=821464&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

and here is another article I listed...
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/11/white_led_break.php

Oh, and about the spectrum... here is the spectral graph for some of the white LEDs that many are using over at nano-reef.com for hteir own DIY arrays. Who wouldnt want a nice spectrum like this?!!?!??!
W10015_bin2.gif
 
Unfortunately, high power LEDs with larger die are less efficient. Cree holds the record for their high power LEDs at 47 lm/w, while Nichia has 5mm LEDs in production at 85lm/w with 100lm/w coming soon. www.ledsmagazine.com has the news articles about them.

Lamina Ceramics is producing high power LEDs with multiple small die, but for some reason their efficiency is not very high. Check out their new Titan and Atlas LEDs at www.laminaceramics.com. I have an RGB Atlas on the way to experiment with, and may be ordering 2 Titan LEDs for a 10g light hood.

The nice thing about the Titans is the lumen numbers include the built in 60 degree optics. Their efficiency is on par with the average bin white Lux III, at just over 35lm/w, but with 1000 lm per unit, there's less soldering and fewer optics to buy, none if you want 60 degree. Should be easier to work with than Luxeons.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8050606#post8050606 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pulse13
Unfortunately, high power LEDs with larger die are less efficient. Cree holds the record for their high power LEDs at 47 lm/w, while Nichia has 5mm LEDs in production at 85lm/w with 100lm/w coming soon. www.ledsmagazine.com has the news articles about them.
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According to the articles I can list, Nichia and Cree are both developing LED's well over 100lm/w... cree.com should show the 131 lm/w verification as well as here...
http://www.prnewstoday.com/release.htm?cat=computer-electronics&dat=20060620&rl=CLTU08820062006-1

I dont know about you, but I dont care if its done with 100 smaller LED's or a few larger ones... 131 lumens per watt is still just that!

For others... I know lumens/watt isnt the same as PAR/watt, but if you look at that spectral graph of what your usual superbright white LED puts out, and compare it to the spectral sensitivity of the lumen scale, you will see that the PAR might be even more significant because of the huge amount of blue spectrums in these LEDs that most lux meters dont pick up as well as reds and greens. If LEDs are able to have lux outputs as high as they are, and then have most of their visible light output in the blue range, the PAR and PUR might be even greater.
 
Well once high power LEDs are available at those efficiencies, or anywhere close, there will be no doubt as to which the better technology is. There was a good article in Science last year about smart lighting that mentioned stuff about LEDs reaching close to 100 percent efficiency, I'll have to see if I can dig it up.
 
Its just a matter of time... thats the cool part. It seems the biggest factor is getting these LED's into mass production.... like I mentioned before... factories take time to make! That combined with reluctance by mfg's to commit to making something that might be 'ancient tech' in a few months with how fast things are developing.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8050756#post8050756 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Its just a matter of time... thats the cool part. It seems the biggest factor is getting these LED's into mass production.... like I mentioned before... factories take time to make! That combined with reluctance by mfg's to commit to making something that might be 'ancient tech' in a few months with how fast things are developing.
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Right, definitely agree. LEDs are the way of the future of lighting. Just, in this case, the future isnt here, and the Solaris is a far cry from what is possible.
 
Well if the solaris is a far cry from whats possible which I somewhat agree with then we better never upgrade our equipment. Theres always going to be something new coming out, thats better then what we have that we want. One of these days I'm sure that they well have robots that will take care of our tanks 24/7 and cook us dinner while they're at it. First it was Beta then everybody upgraded to VHS even though VHS was a far cry from what was possible with DVD's. Now Blu-Ray is the new thing.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8051632#post8051632 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xlayedoutx
Well if the solaris is a far cry from whats possible which I somewhat agree with then we better never upgrade our equipment. Theres always going to be something new coming out, thats better then what we have that we want. One of these days I'm sure that they well have robots that will take care of our tanks 24/7 and cook us dinner while they're at it. First it was Beta then everybody upgraded to VHS even though VHS was a far cry from what was possible with DVD's. Now Blu-Ray is the new thing.
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Xlayedoutx, I'm not saying people shouldnt upgrade to better technology because beter technology is coming out in the future. What I'm saying is that Solaris is a step down from MH. The LEDS in a couple years will be better than MH. These are not.

The Beta/VHS analogy is startlingly correct analogy here. People DOWNGRADED from Beta to VHS becaues of marketing and hype. What I'm saying is dont downgrade your lighting because someone says its hip and cool and new.
 
Well I'm not a self proclamied expert here like most of you, but I do think the solaris would do a great job replacing my 150 watt DE MH's. From what I've read the solaris was tested against a 250 watt MH. It was one 250 watt MH vs. one bank of LED's which would have been 75 watts worth. The one bank of LED's was very compareable to the MH from what I saw in the graphs. Now correct me if I'm wrong please but most 4 foot long tanks have 2 MH's while the Solaris unit will have 4 Banks of LED's. Wouldn't that make the Solaris the better choice IN MY CASE?
 
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xlayedoutx, yes, that would be a decent assumption. The problem is that they used basically the weakest bulb possible for the comparison.

The XM20K that they reccomended, after correction from the additional glass shield, has a par right around 40. Most 150w Halides are higher than that. In addition to that, for the solaris test, they only used the area that the solaris would cover, and basically discarded that area on the halides. IE, all teh light that wasnt in that 12"x12" or so area, was just discounted.

The point is, the test they did was set up in such a way to show all the strengths of the Solaris, hide all its weaknesses, and generally show a very favorable result that isnt neccessarily earned.

The 4' fixture does have 4 banks, and like you said, a common 4' MH fixture only has 2 bulbs. Heres the caveat, the 4 bank fixture has 4 banks because it needs 4 banks. The spread is very poor. All the light is fixed in that small area (coincidentally, the small area they used for their measurement area), whereas the spread on the halides is good enough that you only need them every 2 feet.
 
xlayedoutx, that also depends if you want to lose the very high lux lighting at the top of the tank you get with MH in exchange for higher lux on the bottom of the tank. The solaris has a very wide light emiting area with a more focused pattern, while the MH is a point source with a wider focus, this explains the differences seen at the BOTTOM, but what about lux at the top? Its something like this:

24335LED-MH.jpg
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8052017#post8052017 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clkwrk
It is so much easier to read thru this thread after clicking that link .


Cindy I can't wait to see the lights when you get them .
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If I'm so wrong here, could someone tell me what I'm wrong about?

Honestly, If I'm missing something, or my calculations are wrong, someone point them out. I've seen nothing to the contrary. Please...point these things out.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8052325#post8052325 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
Mostly Rich, you're just annoying (wrong frequently as well, but annoying almost all the time). The responses and my Inbox full of PM's & emails help prove that. :lol:

For someone who says they work 900 hours a week and doesn't like to get in pi$$ing matches, you do find a lot of time to post about things that you've never used. I think Dana's post wrapped it pretty well for me. Its amazing to me that you really have the time - I have no idea why you're even posting here. I think thats why moonpod and others don't even reply to your posts, I probably should find that ignore button. But I won't because for some reason its entertaining to read know-it-all posters.
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Again, where am I wrong in this thread?


Please keep this on topic, and keep from making personal jabs.
 
Damn, you got it before I edited. Sorry mods.

But to be honest its not really personal. You ARE a know-it-all. And you DO post incorrect/inexperience info. So people should know that. You really don't have as much credit as you think you do.

Anyhoo ... mods can feel free to edit. Apologies again.
 
I never said you were wrong but the info you posted was masked by the drama .Fliger didn't say your name at any point yet you go off on your lil dance :rolleyes: I just don't care for the drama and having to skip over half the thread just to ingnore it sucks.
 
Because I think its worth repeating ... who ya gonna trust ....

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8041573#post8041573 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RiddleLabs
Aloha,

There seems to be quite a few misconceptions being touted as facts. I'm not sure of the motivation of a few individuals, but doing some homework before posting would be appreciated - it's your credibility, not mine.

I've invested $60,000 of my own $ in lab equipment so I don't have to rely on opinions. I'm disappointed to see that self-appointed experts want to claim that I got the Solaris unit for 'free' (I did not).

I've been writing for aquarium magazines since 1984 and I will not sell my intregrity for any price.

In situations where artificial lighting is required, I am using a Solaris. No UV, no heat and darn little wasted light - just as the article said. My decision - backed up with facts, not heresay or idle opinions.

Dana
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And on this, I am unsubscribed. All these hypotheticals are fun to read, but I have money to make now.
 
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