Solaris Led lighting systems

[jaydubh11]

I didn't mean to interrupt the endless debating of MH vs. LED, but does anyone have an answer for me?:

I am planning on putting a Solaris on a 90g (24" deep) with LPS/Softies. Will I be happy with the 300w 20K model or should I go with the 400w 20K? I do not plan on adding any SPS to this tank in the future.

LarryW - I know you decided to go with the 400w for your 120g but I believe your new Tech (great thread btw) is going to be SPS dominant, right? Do you think I would be happy with the 300w?

 

[LarryW]

If you look around the H4 is almost the same price as the H2. I would go with the H4. Yes I am doing an SPS/LPS tank, but you never know when your LPS softy tank will add a clam or some SPS.

 

[LarryW]

here are some new pics.... These are with the Day whites and Blues @ 80.

Day Blue and Day White @ 0. Lunar White and Blue @ 10

Day Blue @ 100, Day White @ 0

Day Blue @ 0, Day White @ 100

 

[SWSaltwater]

Very nice!!!!!! what do you think about the tech tank by oceanic? Brought one in to the shop and a panel was crooked and the stand had about 1" of wabble in it. Sent it back. I hope that was a lemon and not the norm.

 

[spleen93]

jaydubh - I agree - given the price differential, I'd go with the H4 too. You can always turn it down if it's too strong for now and turn it back up if you end up getting clams and/or SPS.

Spleen

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10128309#post10128309 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hilgert
You are exactly correct, and have demonstrated a better understanding of this concept than a few others have most recently on this thread.

A 1500 watt hair dryer consumes 1500 watts of power (watts = power), and most of it (practically all of it) is turned into heat energy (with little if any visible light from the heating elements, certainly not enough to light a room with 1500 watts of light energy).

A 75 watt incandescent light bulb consumes 75 watts, much of which is turned into heat energy (which is why you burn your hand when you touch it).

A 16W flourescent flood light consumes 16 watts, is cooler to the touch than a 75 watt incandescent bulb, but produces about the same amount of light energy.

Watts is NOT exclusively turned into heat or light - heat and light are forms of energy. Watts is used to measure the amount of electrical power required to generate heat or light energy. Also, a water pump consumes X watts of power to move the water, and the most efficient pumps generate very little heat (ie - they are very efficient in moving the water). Some pumps on the other hand can be sources of heat in a tank since they are less efficient into converting the electrical power (watts) into mechanical energy (moving water).

-Hilgert

Thank god your not a science teacher

You got it partly right, but neglected to mention that Energy = Heat.

Take 4 insulated boxes...

Place a bucket of water and a 100W 'efficient' pump in one box.
Place a bucket of water and a 100W 'inefficient' pump in another.
Place 100W worth of LED lighting in another.
Place 100W worth of heating element in another.

ALL (4) boxes will heat exactly the same at the same rate. Basic physics. If you think that 2 internal pumps of different "efficiency" and like wattage will heat a tank differently, your sadly mistaken. The pump that moves more water per time will help increase convective, conductive and evaporative cooling. But make no mistake that both impart the same heat load into the water.

The same holds true for light and RADIATION. A MH bulb certainly produces more heat via RADIATION than an LED, but again WATTS ARE WATTS. There is no MAGIC escape hatch to get the watts out of the bulb and out of the room.

This is getting silly.

 

[bstreep]

Bean, thanks for that - I just felt like I was beating my head against the wall.

Have you had a chance to look over my proposed comparison? What do you think?

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10129932#post10129932 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stimpy4242
again i said with lights you are right...but you are saying all energy is heat...again you are wrong in a pump the energy is mechanical energy...not radiation energy in the light spectrum...gosh darn..

Stimpy, I am going to be as kind as possible...

But this is one of the problems with this "thread" and why many of us will not let it go. You simply do not have understand the science or physics you are talking about. That is not meant as a cut on you, just a simple statement of what is very obvious to anybody who truly understands the basics of physics, heat and energy.

Your opinions based on this misunderstanding, and those opinions of people with similar gaps in understadning, are exactly what is fueling the misinformation in this and similar threads. Furthermore it [lack of REAL understanding] is EXACTLY what the PFO advertising is being marketed towards.

Just because a handful of similar people happen to agree with you, and you with them... well it simply does not mean that consensus equates to truth.

Nobody is trying to "bash" PFO or anybody who purchases the units. However, it gets old seeing "Wow I save $100 a month and I get more light than I did with MH... yadda yadda."

This has been put into perspective MANY times by several VERY INFORMED people. Yet, each time a much less informed "owner" rattles off more of the "sales pitch" and the cycle starts all over.

I can not force you to learn, but it would appear that you are certainly not open to learning new science or how things actually work. Up to you... but if you look back through this thread, there is a WEALTH of good information that will help you to become a smarter shopper when it comes to technology and advertising claims.

For those who want to continue to argue about energy usage, I strongly suggest a visit to a basic physics website. It is one thing to debate the quality of the light output, but if you do not understand that Watts are Watts (ENERGY = HEAT) then this is a waste of time.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10133765#post10133765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bstreep
Bean, thanks for that - I just felt like I was beating my head against the wall.

Have you had a chance to look over my proposed comparison? What do you think?

It looks like it would be interesting. As with many basic "experiments" I am sure that there will be too many variables to draw a "scientific" conclusion that will suit everybody. On the other hand it is a "real world" application (something that the the LED supporters claim disproves the science).

I doubt that both companies will go for it though. They have way too much to lose. There will also be the problem of "honesty" that will come up if either LED company loses.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Nice looking room LarryW. Is noise or glare going to be a problem with the tank so close to the TV?

 

[bstreep]

Bean,

I believe that I have an agreement from both. The only thing it will cost them is the return of my money when their fixture doesn't win.

The problem with the "science" part of the discussion, is that it's so hard for an instrument to measure exactly what "works" for the corals. In addition, COLORATION is so important in growing corals. As I said earlier, if a light grows huge brown corals out of a beautiful $100 frag, who would buy the light?

What would you change in the process? What variables need to be nailed down? The single biggest issue I see is horizontal placement into or out of "hot spots".

 

[jnb]

I like the bucket explanation and it made me think. My MH blast heat downward onto the water - I wonder if this lends some justification to those of us that have experienced less electrivity bills - does the water absorbing this heat, if that is the right word, but not letting it go quick enough, causing the chiller to come on quicker with MH, causing the house to heat up because most people don't vent the hot air coming from a chiller - cause more electric use than a fixture that does not blast heat down so much. My MH fixture have 2 fans that pull air thru nicely but the heat coming down thru the glass of the MH is still way hot compared to my solaris - which explains why my water heats up way quicker than with the solaris - notwithstanding the fact that watts equal watts.

this is my killawatt measurement (using the older solaris 48 inch - the killawatt meter has this switch that when I toggle it, I get these 2 different readings for watts (which I do not understand)
Solaris 2 250 mh
watts 401 518
watts 595 547
amps 4.92 4.53


Take 4 insulated boxes...

Place a bucket of water and a 100W 'efficient' pump in one box.
Place a bucket of water and a 100W 'inefficient' pump in another.
Place 100W worth of LED lighting in another.
Place 100W worth of heating element in another.

ALL (4) boxes will heat exactly the same at the same rate. Basic physics. If you think that 2 internal pumps of different "efficiency" and like wattage will heat a tank differently, your sadly mistaken. The pump that moves more water per time will help increase convective, conductive and evaporative cooling. But make no mistake that both impart the same heat load into the water.

The same holds true for light and RADIATION. A MH bulb certainly produces more heat via RADIATION than an LED, but again WATTS ARE WATTS. There is no MAGIC escape hatch to get the watts out of the bulb and out of the room.

This is getting silly. [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[LarryW]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10133924#post10133924 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
Nice looking room LarryW. Is noise or glare going to be a problem with the tank so close to the TV?

Thanks,

I don't think so, there isn't much light spread past the wall on either side of the tank, and I am trying to get equipment that is quiet as well. I use to have a 72bowfront which was on the other wall across from my 65" Mitsubishi. I had a little glare there but it wasn't that bad. My 52 in that room should be fine.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes the MH lamps "blast" heat down into the water (radiation). Yes, less direct heating of the water will certainly help the chiller run less and help your electric bill

SO if the chiller DOES run and add heat to the ROOM... The part that people do not understand is that it does not take 1 watt of "chiller" to remove 1 watt of heat from the tank, nor does it take 1 watt of AC to remove 1 Watt of heat from the room.

The point all along has been pertty straight forward. There is SOME energy saved, but not as much as some would have you believe.

The single point source vs many point sources also makes the heat "feel" different. Pack all of those LEDS in a sqare inch of eara and then see how hot your hand gets in from of them

 

[hahnmeister]

There is potential though, as LED's advance. As is, they will make about the same amount of heat as a halide or T5, watt for watt. Where their potential lies is in their ability to some day generate more PAR and lumens per watt than these other forms of lighting. IF by 2010, Cree puts its 150 lumen/watt LEDs on the market, or who knows, beyond that... then it would be possible to light a tank that needed 1000 watts of halide with only 250 watts of LED's... and then yes, you will see less heat, simply because you will get the same light with less total wattage. That is where LED's will eventually succeed... but the luxeons, with their 8 something lumens per watt... no where close. The Luxeon Rebels (about 60 lumens/watt) are about the first LED's to really give other light forms a run for the money.

 

[purebullet417]

my uncle is getting 400w solaris for his 125 and should be here by the end of july. right now he has 6x96w pcs for lighiting. what should we set the intensitys to and how slow should be bring them up as to not to hurt the corals.(yes we have some sps under this and they are growing ok)

 

[Philwd]

Actually Hahn Seoul Semi is already supplying 100lm/W White LEDs for the Aquaillumination. Seoul also claims to have a 135lm/W later this year and a 145 lumen version in 2008. We'll see if they deliver.

 

[jaydubh11]

Thanks for the input, LarryW and spleen93. LarryW, if you could PM me the info on the PFO dealer you purchased from, I would appreciate it.

Thank god your not a science teacher

...and you probably aren't an English teacher

 

[bstreep]

LOL...

 

[natedogg]

How annoying is this Bean guy??? Im trying to read something and then he pops in with the same negative crap for the last 60 pages. People like him should have their own Forum... "Low Self-Esteem Group".

GET A LIFE BEAN. Go somewhere else. Do something better with your time. I believe in you...

Am I the only one who thinks this...?


Soloris LEDs are great!!