hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Possibly... my Icecap 250 is pretty cool... nothing I would call hot or anything. I could carry it in my pocket all day and not burn myself. I hang it with one #8 screw on a board. The EVC is even smaller.
Solaris Led lighting systems
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
No I never tried the Ice cap MH ballast but I have the Ice cap vho ballast and its cool.. The ones I have now are the Hamilton ballast and they get hot and they are the heaviest things that I have ever seen**But you guys I say have given me a new respect for reefing and I take it very serious now and read up on everything before doing it... The solaris is so great though because I dont have to do anything just turn it on and let it do its thing. Another reason why I chose the solaris is that I had a 58gal at first and the lights inside caught on fire... That was one of the scariest moments of my life to come home and the room is full of smoke... This same thing happen to Emmitt Smith when he live out here and burned his whole house down.. Luckly I just lost a canopy..
Wolverine
Premium Member
What I would like to see someone do (and no, I don't currently have the space or resources to do this, but maybe we can convince someone to do it) would be to get a 120g or 180g and get a 24" Solaris setup and a 24" 400W MH setup of good quality. Put one over the right side of the tank, one over the left side of the tank (I chose 24" because then they can be put on front-to-back without having to be creative with a special hood or anything else that would be more work). Space them enough so there's little overlap of the lighting. Just that on it's own would be tremendously useful for directly comparing how they look for brightness and for taking objective measurements; you won't have to worry about exposure differences and things like that in the pictures.
Of course, most of us care a lot more about results than we do about the objective numbers (OK, not all of us, but I think most of us here). So here's what you do. You get the tank going, you get two frags of every coral you're going to use, but them under each light at comparable heights, and see what happens. There might still be water movement differences, but this would at least eliminate differences in water quality, water clarity, tank maturity, and things like that. You could also put a Kill-o-watt on each setup and see how much you're using.
I don't expect anyone will do this, but it would be nice.
Dave
Of course, most of us care a lot more about results than we do about the objective numbers (OK, not all of us, but I think most of us here). So here's what you do. You get the tank going, you get two frags of every coral you're going to use, but them under each light at comparable heights, and see what happens. There might still be water movement differences, but this would at least eliminate differences in water quality, water clarity, tank maturity, and things like that. You could also put a Kill-o-watt on each setup and see how much you're using.
I don't expect anyone will do this, but it would be nice.
Dave
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Thats how I compared the halide to T5...
Two 40B linked together and with Tunze streams in each for flow. Top with a Pheonix 14,000K on Icecap 250 (later it became an EVC 20,000K w/ PFO HQI) and PFO mini pendant. Bottom tank with 6x39wattT5 Tek light and a matching assortment of bulbs (2x G-man aquablue, 2x G-man actinic+, 2x G-man true actinic03). I ended up modding the Tek Light with an airflow mod that boosted the output by 20%, and extended the bulb life to an unknown length (Im at 18 months and they still seem to be effective according to the PAR meter).
I took frags of the same corals to grow in each... pink birdsnest, blue tort, green digi, pink millipora, blue millipora, Xenia, candy cane, orange whorling cap, and GSP.
In the end, the T5s won out. They matched the halide in growth, and winning factor was the coloration. The corals under the T5s just colored in so much more intense.
I could do a comparison with a 3' PFO Solaris over one of the tanks.
Two 40B linked together and with Tunze streams in each for flow. Top with a Pheonix 14,000K on Icecap 250 (later it became an EVC 20,000K w/ PFO HQI) and PFO mini pendant. Bottom tank with 6x39wattT5 Tek light and a matching assortment of bulbs (2x G-man aquablue, 2x G-man actinic+, 2x G-man true actinic03). I ended up modding the Tek Light with an airflow mod that boosted the output by 20%, and extended the bulb life to an unknown length (Im at 18 months and they still seem to be effective according to the PAR meter).
I took frags of the same corals to grow in each... pink birdsnest, blue tort, green digi, pink millipora, blue millipora, Xenia, candy cane, orange whorling cap, and GSP.
In the end, the T5s won out. They matched the halide in growth, and winning factor was the coloration. The corals under the T5s just colored in so much more intense.
I could do a comparison with a 3' PFO Solaris over one of the tanks.
tonyespinoza
Premium Member
Solaris for a 36" cube?
Solaris for a 36" cube?
I'm considering a 36" Solaris for a new cube build (36"x36"x22").
I read early on in this thread that the light dispersion from Solaris was aimed more downward than MH (I think it was Cindy said she felt she had less algae growth on the glass).
Any thoughts from Solaris users on this?
Solaris for a 36" cube?
I'm considering a 36" Solaris for a new cube build (36"x36"x22").
I read early on in this thread that the light dispersion from Solaris was aimed more downward than MH (I think it was Cindy said she felt she had less algae growth on the glass).
Any thoughts from Solaris users on this?
It probably depends on the MH reflector that you're comparing to but I'd say that my Solaris is more directional downwards than my MH Reef Optix III reflectors. With a 36 inch width, I'd actually recommend going with a single Lumenarc III 250 watt MH to cover the area properly. Alternatively, you'd probably need at least 2 x 36 inch Solaris units to cover the area properly.
Spleen
Spleen
tonyespinoza
Premium Member
thanks spleen!
thanks spleen!
that's what i thought -- MH here i come!
thanks spleen!
that's what i thought -- MH here i come!
skydancer
New member
Question about the Solaris LED light spacing
Question about the Solaris LED light spacing
I've been thinking about this... and I can't figure it out...
The Solaris fixures claims higher PUR than MHs because the LED light has more directional beams where the MH bulb disperses the light beams therefore the PUR is "lower" direcltly below the MH lamp. But, the area coverage for a MH is higher. OK, so far so good.
But if this is indeed true, why is the Solaris fixture spacing the LED light area in a similar pattern to the MH?
I would think that the leds would have to be a continous array across the fixture for maximum coverage, otherwise the 1-ft blank spots between the LED arrays would have dead light spots...
Am I wrong?
For example, in a 36" fixture, had the leds be placed across the fixture without a blank spot in between the two LED arrays, the light output (in Watts) would be closer to the wattage of the two 250W MHs...
Just a thought...
Question about the Solaris LED light spacing
I've been thinking about this... and I can't figure it out...
The Solaris fixures claims higher PUR than MHs because the LED light has more directional beams where the MH bulb disperses the light beams therefore the PUR is "lower" direcltly below the MH lamp. But, the area coverage for a MH is higher. OK, so far so good.
But if this is indeed true, why is the Solaris fixture spacing the LED light area in a similar pattern to the MH?
I would think that the leds would have to be a continous array across the fixture for maximum coverage, otherwise the 1-ft blank spots between the LED arrays would have dead light spots...
Am I wrong?
For example, in a 36" fixture, had the leds be placed across the fixture without a blank spot in between the two LED arrays, the light output (in Watts) would be closer to the wattage of the two 250W MHs...
Just a thought...
tonyespinoza
Premium Member
Correction: Aqua Illumination, here i come...
Correction: Aqua Illumination, here i come...
So I've decided to go with the AI LED lights and make my tank only 18" deep... Also think I'm going to try one of their 12" models on a nano...
Feel free to ping me after August if you wanna know how it's going with them.
;-) tE
Correction: Aqua Illumination, here i come...
So I've decided to go with the AI LED lights and make my tank only 18" deep... Also think I'm going to try one of their 12" models on a nano...
Feel free to ping me after August if you wanna know how it's going with them.
;-) tE
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
skydancer,
The reason for the higher PUR claim is because the PAR is lower. This is not something based on the output area, but the spectrum. The claim is that since the output has so much blue in it, and that blue is more important to corals than any other spectrum for growth, so even though the PAR, or available radiation is lower, the PUR, or usable radiation, is higher due to the spectrum.
This is somewhat true, er, rather, very true. Most corals can exist on blue alone. The problem that I have with this conclusion is that I have seen what happens to corals when there is loads of blue and little else: all too many times.
Due to lack of other spectrums, the pigmentation of the corals tends to suffer. So while they may grow great, they will not be as richly colored as a fuller spectrum bulb. I have seen this first hand with pheonix 14,000K bulbs... loads of blue, but little else, as well as 20,000K bulbs. The corals tend to get 'chalky'. This also has been recorded to be the case with T5 bulbs, which are similar to LED's in their output compared to halides. See, when you have a bluer halide like a blue 14,000K or a 20,000K, these bulbs still put out a good amount of red, green, orange, etc... Not so with LEDs and T5s. A blue+ T5 for instance... loads of blue, some actinic, some green... and thats it. Same with the 'aquablue' bulbs out there. So you can have a tank with loads of blue, and if you dont put in any daylight/3000K bulbs, you can have a spectrum w/o any red/orange/yellow all together. The effects of this have been recorded in mothra's blog at reefs.org/frags.org. Pink, red, and yellow corals wash out. PFO ended up adding two green LED's to the 20,000K unit because with LED's, the LED's have an even narrower output. With a LED, you can have a 420nm blue LED that ONLY produces a spike at 420nm... and no green, purple, etc. I wonder how long until a 3000K bulb or two is added to a Solaris myself.
This is why several people wont go with bluer bulbs. Take Sanjay for instance. He prefers the fuller spectrum of a 10,000K-14,000K bulb. How could he prefer this over blue? Well... have you seen how well his corals pigments develop?
For this reason, I suggest to people to get a halide+T5 combo. This allows you to get the highest output 10,000K halide, and using even just 2 rows of T5s (although 4 is preferred), you can have a very blue tank (sort of 'dayblue' because there is still warm spectrum output from the 10,000Ks) with the same efficiency as a LED... only better coverage. Using the above combo, it takes about 985 watts to light a 180g tank to the teeth (Im talking light levels in the 200 range at the bottom of the tank).
The H4 is only slightly less at 880 watts, but lower output at the sand, and less coverage as well (lets say your tank is 30" wide and only 20" tall... then you would have to buy two Solaris to get the coverage of that one halide system). And I dont care about the PUR vs. PAR arguments anymore either... the PAR of a XM might be slightly higher than a mid-range 20,000K bulb, and thats how the LED's can pull of this PUR thing... but if you run percentages comparing the MH+T5 combo, the LED might make some ground on the MH+T5 combo, but its no where near catching up. And have you seen the coloration of corals under this light spectrum? Its amazing. The heat output of the MH+T5 combo will be better than the LED's as well because the Mh+T5s are so much more efficient... watt for watt, so coupled with the slightly lower wattage, the LED's will end up about the same heat output (LED's, even these high output ones, are only boasting about a 20-30 lumen/watt output, vs a 10,000K halide which is going to be more than double that along with T5s).
The reason for the higher PUR claim is because the PAR is lower. This is not something based on the output area, but the spectrum. The claim is that since the output has so much blue in it, and that blue is more important to corals than any other spectrum for growth, so even though the PAR, or available radiation is lower, the PUR, or usable radiation, is higher due to the spectrum.
This is somewhat true, er, rather, very true. Most corals can exist on blue alone. The problem that I have with this conclusion is that I have seen what happens to corals when there is loads of blue and little else: all too many times.
Due to lack of other spectrums, the pigmentation of the corals tends to suffer. So while they may grow great, they will not be as richly colored as a fuller spectrum bulb. I have seen this first hand with pheonix 14,000K bulbs... loads of blue, but little else, as well as 20,000K bulbs. The corals tend to get 'chalky'. This also has been recorded to be the case with T5 bulbs, which are similar to LED's in their output compared to halides. See, when you have a bluer halide like a blue 14,000K or a 20,000K, these bulbs still put out a good amount of red, green, orange, etc... Not so with LEDs and T5s. A blue+ T5 for instance... loads of blue, some actinic, some green... and thats it. Same with the 'aquablue' bulbs out there. So you can have a tank with loads of blue, and if you dont put in any daylight/3000K bulbs, you can have a spectrum w/o any red/orange/yellow all together. The effects of this have been recorded in mothra's blog at reefs.org/frags.org. Pink, red, and yellow corals wash out. PFO ended up adding two green LED's to the 20,000K unit because with LED's, the LED's have an even narrower output. With a LED, you can have a 420nm blue LED that ONLY produces a spike at 420nm... and no green, purple, etc. I wonder how long until a 3000K bulb or two is added to a Solaris myself.
This is why several people wont go with bluer bulbs. Take Sanjay for instance. He prefers the fuller spectrum of a 10,000K-14,000K bulb. How could he prefer this over blue? Well... have you seen how well his corals pigments develop?
For this reason, I suggest to people to get a halide+T5 combo. This allows you to get the highest output 10,000K halide, and using even just 2 rows of T5s (although 4 is preferred), you can have a very blue tank (sort of 'dayblue' because there is still warm spectrum output from the 10,000Ks) with the same efficiency as a LED... only better coverage. Using the above combo, it takes about 985 watts to light a 180g tank to the teeth (Im talking light levels in the 200 range at the bottom of the tank).
The H4 is only slightly less at 880 watts, but lower output at the sand, and less coverage as well (lets say your tank is 30" wide and only 20" tall... then you would have to buy two Solaris to get the coverage of that one halide system). And I dont care about the PUR vs. PAR arguments anymore either... the PAR of a XM might be slightly higher than a mid-range 20,000K bulb, and thats how the LED's can pull of this PUR thing... but if you run percentages comparing the MH+T5 combo, the LED might make some ground on the MH+T5 combo, but its no where near catching up. And have you seen the coloration of corals under this light spectrum? Its amazing. The heat output of the MH+T5 combo will be better than the LED's as well because the Mh+T5s are so much more efficient... watt for watt, so coupled with the slightly lower wattage, the LED's will end up about the same heat output (LED's, even these high output ones, are only boasting about a 20-30 lumen/watt output, vs a 10,000K halide which is going to be more than double that along with T5s).
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Here, thought I would add a link to something interesting. One of the conclusions drawn is that excessive blue light actually decreases coral growth.
And if you read German, this article from Claude is a good read on spectrum...
http://archiv.korallenriff.de/Artikel_Kelvin.pdf
And if you read German, this article from Claude is a good read on spectrum...
http://archiv.korallenriff.de/Artikel_Kelvin.pdf
RichConley
New member
On an interesting note, my icecap 250 is reasonable cool. You could fry an egg on my icecap 150s.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
On another interesting note, one of Dana Riddle's major 'selling points' about this system is the huge amount of blue light that they make compared to other spectrums.
This is interesting, because in recent months, several German biologists and reefers have been finding that light sources with too much % of blue and nothing else can actually hinder coral growth. This problem doesnt happen with halides, but with T5s and other phosphor based systems (LED's) which can produce huge amounts of blue and nothing else... there have been problems. It makes me wonder if Dana might revisit this in the future. It seems too much of a good thing, and nothing else leads to less that the coral can actually use.
This may explain why some arent experiencing the growth they used to with prior fuller range lighting.
This is interesting, because in recent months, several German biologists and reefers have been finding that light sources with too much % of blue and nothing else can actually hinder coral growth. This problem doesnt happen with halides, but with T5s and other phosphor based systems (LED's) which can produce huge amounts of blue and nothing else... there have been problems. It makes me wonder if Dana might revisit this in the future. It seems too much of a good thing, and nothing else leads to less that the coral can actually use.
This may explain why some arent experiencing the growth they used to with prior fuller range lighting.
tonyespinoza
Premium Member
Solaris updates?
Solaris updates?
A question for all those who are running Solaris:
How's it going with SPS? Anyone got pics to share?
Anyone running H4's yet?
Solaris updates?
A question for all those who are running Solaris:
How's it going with SPS? Anyone got pics to share?
Anyone running H4's yet?
J3REEF
New member
7/11/2007 First SPS added!
And a new friend!
And I know, clean up the bubble algae...
The way the good stuff is encrusting all my LR, I am hoping that it just runs right over those little green pearls ;-)
So far I am VERY happy with the Solaris.
Time will tell, but all live items in the tank seem to be having a blast growing like nuts!
And a new friend!
And I know, clean up the bubble algae...
The way the good stuff is encrusting all my LR, I am hoping that it just runs right over those little green pearls ;-)
So far I am VERY happy with the Solaris.
Time will tell, but all live items in the tank seem to be having a blast growing like nuts!
tonyespinoza
Premium Member
nice!
nice!
awesome -- glad to hear it.
any way to see a full tank shot!? or else tell us what you're keep'n in there...
also, are you running the new H4? it looks a lot less blue than the other solaris posts thus far. i like the look. which config? (20K or 13K?)
thanks for sharing the pics and good news.
(btw -- that tang is a cutie.)
nice!
awesome -- glad to hear it.
any way to see a full tank shot!? or else tell us what you're keep'n in there...
also, are you running the new H4? it looks a lot less blue than the other solaris posts thus far. i like the look. which config? (20K or 13K?)
thanks for sharing the pics and good news.
(btw -- that tang is a cutie.)
J3REEF
New member
Tank shot
130lb Fiji
120lb Caribsea Ocean Direct
2 Ocellaris Clownfish
3 Dispar Anthias
1 Fathead Sunburst Anthias
2 Green Clown Goby
1 Bristletooth Tomini Tang
1 Yahsa Goby
1 Pistol Shrimp
1 Purple Linckia star
4 zoa/button polyp frags
1 sps (?)
1 star polyp
3 open brains
1 red people eater frag
1 branching frogspawn
1 brancing hammerhead
1 green favia
a few mushroom frags
extensive clean up crew - blue leg crabs, tubos, nas, conchs, etc.
130lb Fiji
120lb Caribsea Ocean Direct
2 Ocellaris Clownfish
3 Dispar Anthias
1 Fathead Sunburst Anthias
2 Green Clown Goby
1 Bristletooth Tomini Tang
1 Yahsa Goby
1 Pistol Shrimp
1 Purple Linckia star
4 zoa/button polyp frags
1 sps (?)
1 star polyp
3 open brains
1 red people eater frag
1 branching frogspawn
1 brancing hammerhead
1 green favia
a few mushroom frags
extensive clean up crew - blue leg crabs, tubos, nas, conchs, etc.
Similar threads
