Some new fish...

[barbianj]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15084787#post15084787 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DamnPepShrimp
API doesn't work on cupramine, you need salifert test kits. Also, be aware when using cupramine, it can make some ammonia test kits faulty, only certain ones are exact.

I had read somewhere on the great Interweb that someone had the same results with API and Salifert. That's obviously wrong.

I also have the API test kit, but my ammonia has always been zero. Nitrites are 0 and Nitrates were 20 before an 80 gallon water change. Do you know which ammonia test works with Cupramine?

 

[Recty]

Seachem makes a test kit, I have a couple actually, that work with Cupramine.

Of course, they recommend you use their test kits with their product

 

[Recty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15083808#post15083808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DamnPepShrimp
So you used 500g worth of copper treatment for less than 300g of actual water volume?

Well I didnt just dump in 500g worth of treatment in one sitting... over the course of 3 days, the rock or whatever in the tank that absorbs copper has been absorbing enough that I've had to use an entire 100mm bottle to keep my levels at 0.50. I pretty much knew that would be the case, keeping copper in solution in a tank with live rock is pretty hard according to most who have tried it.

 

[LuvAngels88]

IMHO, dipping the stick in the miniscule amount of powder they give you makes it difficult to get an accurate test result. I never know if I have enough of the powder or not. I have the Seachem, Red Sea, and API kits. The Red Sea & API kits work just fine.

 

[barbianj]

LuvAngels88, the trouble that I had with API is that at a concentration of 0 - .5, the scale reads clear to a very, very light yellow. Very hard to distinguish any difference in the readings. I only found one store within 50 miles that has a Seachem kit. Nobody has the Salifert.

 

[LuvAngels88]

barbianj, yeah, I had a hard time finding ANY of the kits in town too. Had to order them online. The API kit was easier to read when looking down from the top of the tube, with the cap off, over a white piece of paper. Both API and Red Sea kits tests came out the same. (BTW, barbianj, I cannot, for the life of me, get that Blueline Trig to eat any pellets! He will only eat frozen spirulina brine and some frozen silversides. He would rather starve than eat the pellets, mysis, nori, etc. that the angels are eating.) Sorry, Recty, don't I hope I'm not hijacking your thread.

 

[Recty]

Not a problem, I dont feel hijacked at all this is stuff I like to hear about.

I guess if you dont go with a Seachem test kit, you need to make really sure that the test kit you are using it for measuring chelated copper.

Seachem says that Cupramine is a special form of organic chelated copper and to only use their test kits for accurate results... so whether that is just them wanting to buy their brand or not, I cant say for sure, but I use Seachem test kits just to be safe.

I couldnt find them locally either, I had to order mine.

And yes, dipping the little stick in the powder is annoying but I've tested multiple times in a row before and I always get the same reading. When I started with the copper treatment this last week I did 3 tests in about an hour and always got the exact same coloration on the sample liquid so I feel it's a pretty accurate testing method.

Seems a little flakey to me, but it works.

 

[LuvAngels88]

I know, it is flakey. I didn't want to mess with the tiny vial of powder any more so I thought I would look for other options. The Red Sea kit was recommended by a couple of LFS (but they were out of it at the time). I told them I was testing for Cupramine and they insisted it would work and that it was what they used. The API info from F&S says it will work on chelated & free copper: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+15470&pcatid=15470

I tend to go a little low on the copper, at .3 or so, especially with the butterflys. Are your fish showing any interest in eating again yet?

 

[danorth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15085421#post15085421 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LuvAngels88
BTW, barbianj, I cannot, for the life of me, get that Blueline Trig to eat any pellets! He will only eat frozen spirulina brine and some frozen silversides. He would rather starve than eat the pellets, mysis, nori, etc.

:lol:

They have to be the most stubborn fish to get to eat pellets as a whole.

 

[barbianj]

I didn't want to buy the Seachem test kit from the lfs that had the Cupramine because they are one of those places that jacks you for everything, but I have to go back there and get it anyway.

My Blueline will eat everything BUT pellets. Yesterday he swallowed the whole algae sheet, about 3x3, himself.

 

[danorth]

I am proud to say both of mine eat pellets.....first 2 I've ever really had to do so in about 10 different blues.

 

[LuvAngels88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15085649#post15085649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by danorth
:lol:

They have to be the most stubborn fish to get to eat pellets as a whole.

Don't I know it! This Blueline insists on being ultra-stubborn! He will pick through the food floating around the tank and eat only what he wants to eat. I even tried your crushed pellets-caked-onto-the-food trick. I did not succeed in tricking him one bit!

 

[Recty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15085581#post15085581 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LuvAngels88
I know, it is flakey. I didn't want to mess with the tiny vial of powder any more so I thought I would look for other options. The Red Sea kit was recommended by a couple of LFS (but they were out of it at the time). I told them I was testing for Cupramine and they insisted it would work and that it was what they used. The API info from F&S says it will work on chelated & free copper: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+15470&pcatid=15470

I tend to go a little low on the copper, at .3 or so, especially with the butterflys. Are your fish showing any interest in eating again yet?

No interest yet. Tonight will be day 4 of the Prazipro treatment, it should be starting to lose effectiveness and if that is what is causing the fish to not eat then hopefully they will start showing interest in food. I work remotely on Wednesdays so I havent been home to feed at all today or this morning, but tonight I'll give it another shot.

Even if the copper is what is making them lose interest in food, I think all of them are tough enough and healthy enough to survive another 2 weeks or so of the treatment.

 

[barbianj]

So I got the Seachem test kit from the store I don't like to buy from, and there is a big guy in line next to me talking to the staff, joking around with them, apparently a regular. He gets a phone call, and says, real loud, "yeah, I'm at xxx fish store, they have the best business around, because they can rob you, but without guns!"

 

[Recty]

Hah, so true about some stores.

The stores where I shop around here are actually pretty good compared to some of the horror stories I've heard about other fish stores.

I dont order much online, I try to support the local guys whenever possible.

 

[Recty]

Well good news, 3 days after starting treatment and the dussu is at least acting like it wants to eat. The emperor is now swimming around instead of hiding in the rocks, both are still not eating though.

The blue face, which has really been hiding even more than usual since I added copper to his tank, came out and ate like a pig today after his 3 day fast.

The butterfly and majestic still arent eating, both go at the food and then turn away. The majestic pulled one piece into his mouth then spit it out and kept following all the other food around.

But all in all, they are starting to come around!

 

[barbianj]

That's good news. Do you think they are just adjusting to the copper? I've never had fish not eat with just Prazi, maybe is a combination?

 

[Recty]

Yeah, I'm not really sure what the cause is... they obviously could detect something "bad" in the water, copper isnt exactly comfortable for them I'm sure. Maybe it just messed with their sense of taste so much they didnt want food for a couple days until their bodies got more used to it.

Or it could be the combo of Prazi and copper. I did treat my tank before with Prazi and never had a drop in appetite either.

 

[Recty]

I've heard that copper is indicated in causing HLLE, but I never saw it before. However, my emperor is definitely starting to get some tiny little holes in his forehead. I KNOW they were not there before starting the copper treatment.

I'm sure the water quality declined a little since I had to turn off the protein skimmer, remove all filtration basically and introduce copper and prazipro. I just didnt really expect to see HLLE starting in only a week's time.

Hopefully it goes away just as fast! Right now they are just really really small holes so once water quality improves it should take almost no time to heal back up.

 

[Zoom]

As you see above My Emperors eye have some HLLE even with out any copper put in the tank, i try everything to heal the spots but i give up nothing ever help 100% .I Try vitamin C by Kent it help it some and stop it from spreading ....more good luck with all your fish.
Here is the picture of the Emperor you can clearly see the HLLE above the eye.