Some new fish...
- Thread starter Recty
- Start date
- Status
Recty
New member
For what it's worth, my emperor showed these same pock marks in his face after I treated him with copper in my QT. I also had issues in there and the fish was new to me, so I wasnt sure if he came in with the HLLE already or if he got it from being in my QT.
Within 3 weeks of placing him in my DT, the holes were totally gone, so I'm hoping this guy makes a full recovery again, he has proven he can in the past
Recty
New member
Everyone is eating on and off, no one fish is totally not accepting any foods, but no one is eating every meal either. The blue face is probably the most "hungry" seeming fish, I think once he started eating he hasnt refused a meal except once during this whole copper process. He is also the only fish in a tank by himself, so maybe that has something to do with it.
The majestic and raccoon are both doing good, most of the time they eat.
The emperor isnt really eating at all, neither is the dussu. I put in a small piece of an algae sheet every day and they come right up to it and let it blow in their face like they REALLY REALLY REALLY want to eat it, but they just dont take a bite.
The achilles nibbles nori, but not much, however he does eat mysis from time to time.
Sardaukar
Premium Member
Just read the whole thread and have 2 questions: First, have you thought about adding some more smaller fish to soak up aggression/provide the whole dither fish effect? Thinking back to the goldflake angel, while there was not much/any obvious fin nipping, chasing type aggression towards it, think about who it was in a tank with. It was the fourth fish in a four fish tank that has a very large tang, an adult Emperor Angel and a medium sized achilles - I wonder how much incidential stress that added even though there was no outward signs of aggression? Surely something like a small harem of anthias or even a smattering of green chromis wouldn't add too much bio load while upping the number of smaller fish to provide some more comfort and distribute what aggression there is among a larger number.
Second, several people in this thread had advanced the old "every tank has ich" myth that just won't seem to die. Plenty of aquarists have ich free tanks (and I'm talking "No Ich In Their Tanks" ich free, not "None of my fish currently is having an outbreak" ich free) and never have to deal with bouts of it in their display tanks. The belief that your fish will be fine with ich as long as they are healthy and stress free is a ticking time bomb. Sooner or later, something, be it a new fish, a powerhead falling into the sand, a power outage, a tank move, etc will add that stress and you will have your full blown ich outbreak. There really is no voodoo behind it. Snag a couple of cheap 55g's off of craigs list, set em up with Aquaclear HOB filters, a powerhead or two and a heater and transfer all of your fish into them. Treat em for ich with whatever method you feel most comfortable and let your display tank remain fallow for the duration of the ich life cycle (off the top of my head its about 2-3 weeks but probably best to go 6 weeks to be safe). Recycle your tank, put your fish back in and PRESTO, you now have an ich free display tank. Properly QT all new fish and you will never have to worry about it again.
Second, several people in this thread had advanced the old "every tank has ich" myth that just won't seem to die. Plenty of aquarists have ich free tanks (and I'm talking "No Ich In Their Tanks" ich free, not "None of my fish currently is having an outbreak" ich free) and never have to deal with bouts of it in their display tanks. The belief that your fish will be fine with ich as long as they are healthy and stress free is a ticking time bomb. Sooner or later, something, be it a new fish, a powerhead falling into the sand, a power outage, a tank move, etc will add that stress and you will have your full blown ich outbreak. There really is no voodoo behind it. Snag a couple of cheap 55g's off of craigs list, set em up with Aquaclear HOB filters, a powerhead or two and a heater and transfer all of your fish into them. Treat em for ich with whatever method you feel most comfortable and let your display tank remain fallow for the duration of the ich life cycle (off the top of my head its about 2-3 weeks but probably best to go 6 weeks to be safe). Recycle your tank, put your fish back in and PRESTO, you now have an ich free display tank. Properly QT all new fish and you will never have to worry about it again.
DamnPepShrimp
Moved On
I really don't think its that easy, you make it sound like just anyone can do it. It takes a lot of dedication to make a display ich free. Six weeks is half the time for a fallow period if you want to be safe. I think the best decision for Recty is treating the display, that way you are hopefully 100% sure you've killed off every bit of ich. Healthy fish can fight off ich, and even if something scares them like a powerhead falling into the sand etc they still should be able to fight off an ich outbreak. I know I have ich in my tanks and my power goes out, the temp swings wildly and sometimes they don't get their usually 3-5 meals a day. But all my fish remain spotless, and it's not a ticking time bomb. I do plan to treat my whole display tank, but not until I am done adding fish. I QT fish before adding them to the display, but still ich is a very stubborn parasite that is "almost" impossible to kill off.
lol:
Sardaukar
Premium Member
While you are right about the fallow period (I couldn't remember exactly), I completely disagree about it being "almost impossible to kill off" and about it not being a ticking time bomb. Its great that your fish are doing fine with ich, but one persons getting away with it does not serve as any kind of useful example. I once rode a motorcycle without a helmet - I think we can both agree that just because I didn't crash and injure my head doesn't mean someone else might
. These boards see thread after thread about ich outbreaks in which it was under control in healthy fish for months if not years and then emerged with a vengeance thanks to some kind of new factor. The resulting fish deaths are doubly tragic because they were entirely preventable. It IS possible to keep a display system ich free through proper quarantine. If you have the time and money to spend on 400 dollar fish, you have the resources to dedicate to making your system ich free (you are right about medication being an easier option - I was thinking in the reef mindset where medicating the display tank is not doable and a fallow period is the only option). Anything less is just setting yourself up for potential heartbreak.
Recty
New member
Could I do it all again, I think I'd have an ich free display tank and be really rigorous about making sure I never introduce any ich into the tank again.
I'm hoping this 2 weeks of copper in the main tank kills off all the ich and I do achieve an ich free tank.
For me, setting up the number of QT tanks I would need to "happily" house all my fish while the main tank was going fallow for 3 months isnt really possible. I'd probably need 2 55 gallon tanks and 2 30g tanks. I'm just not really set up to be able to handle all that.
I'm hoping this 2 weeks of copper in the main tank kills off all the ich and I do achieve an ich free tank.
For me, setting up the number of QT tanks I would need to "happily" house all my fish while the main tank was going fallow for 3 months isnt really possible. I'd probably need 2 55 gallon tanks and 2 30g tanks. I'm just not really set up to be able to handle all that.
Recty
New member
I sure do like the power of copper. Within 3 days, none of the fish showed any ich at all. Most are eating pretty consistently again too, so I'm not too worried about losing anyone.
The only one that seems weird is the raccoon butterfly, he pulls in a mysis shrimp, chews it or moves it around in his mouth, then spits it back out again. He moves from shrimp to shrimp doing that but not really eating it.
He has to be getting some good out of it since it's soaked in some good stuff which has to be going down his throat a little at least, but it just seems weird. With all my fish, it's like the copper makes their taste buds not work at all, they know something is food and follow it around but they dont want to take a bite, and if they do they spit it out.
Interestingly, my two new angels are the pigs of all of my fish. They always come eat now, whereas the other guys just follow food around.
I would have thought it would be the other way around, with the newest and supposedly the most stressed fish being skittish and not as interested in food, but instead they are the exact opposite.
The only one that seems weird is the raccoon butterfly, he pulls in a mysis shrimp, chews it or moves it around in his mouth, then spits it back out again. He moves from shrimp to shrimp doing that but not really eating it.
He has to be getting some good out of it since it's soaked in some good stuff which has to be going down his throat a little at least, but it just seems weird. With all my fish, it's like the copper makes their taste buds not work at all, they know something is food and follow it around but they dont want to take a bite, and if they do they spit it out.
Interestingly, my two new angels are the pigs of all of my fish. They always come eat now, whereas the other guys just follow food around.
I would have thought it would be the other way around, with the newest and supposedly the most stressed fish being skittish and not as interested in food, but instead they are the exact opposite.
Recty
New member
Speaking of your angel, they have a gorgeous little one at a LFS here in town I almost bought $25 for a 2" and it's eating well and very active.
I wouldnt mind a couple smallish angels in my tank, I dont think the emperor would even care since they would start out so tiny compared to him.
I'd like to try what you want to try and get a harem of flame angels going too, that would be cool.
Hopefully your little angel starts eating soon. My scribbled has been my only fish that has ever totally thwarted my efforts to get it eating. I'm pretty sure it ate a couple mysis and nibbled at a clam, but it never did what I would call eating, it really sucks to just watch a fish waste away.
Your little eibil is in QT still right? It should be pretty easy to get it eating as long as it is comfortable. I know you only like feeding pellets, but you might be better served by trying some frozen foods and get it eating, then wean it over to pellets. Or maybe that is already what you are trying?
$25 for a 2" and it's eating well and very active.I wouldnt mind a couple smallish angels in my tank, I dont think the emperor would even care since they would start out so tiny compared to him.
I'd like to try what you want to try and get a harem of flame angels going too, that would be cool.
Hopefully your little angel starts eating soon. My scribbled has been my only fish that has ever totally thwarted my efforts to get it eating. I'm pretty sure it ate a couple mysis and nibbled at a clam, but it never did what I would call eating, it really sucks to just watch a fish waste away.
Your little eibil is in QT still right? It should be pretty easy to get it eating as long as it is comfortable. I know you only like feeding pellets, but you might be better served by trying some frozen foods and get it eating, then wean it over to pellets. Or maybe that is already what you are trying?
DamnPepShrimp
Moved On
Recty are all your fish in the 210g now?
Recty
New member
Nope, I've got a couple days left on copper treatment. I went ahead and left the two angels and butterfly back in the quarantine tanks and am treating all 3 tanks with copper. I figured that would be less stressful for everyone concerned. Well, except me, of course, but I dont matter
Do the harem man, that can be your thing. I don't have the space for that many, but do plan on getting the one still the guy has for me. Why not get that little 2" one too?! $25 and eating....got me beat on that one too!
I've tried PE mysis soaked in garlic, regular, Formula 1 cube thawed, pellets, nori, diced shrimp. I am getting about 20 lbs of reef quality live rock with a ton of stuff growing on it either tonight or tomorrow. The ich is finally off the fish so I will strip the tank clear and move the rock in and take the old rock out. If it doesn't get to eating in there and the ich doesn't show up after 4 more days, I will move the rock and fish to the 55 where it can feel more at home and have the good rock too.
I will try the clam next I believe.
I've tried PE mysis soaked in garlic, regular, Formula 1 cube thawed, pellets, nori, diced shrimp. I am getting about 20 lbs of reef quality live rock with a ton of stuff growing on it either tonight or tomorrow. The ich is finally off the fish so I will strip the tank clear and move the rock in and take the old rock out. If it doesn't get to eating in there and the ich doesn't show up after 4 more days, I will move the rock and fish to the 55 where it can feel more at home and have the good rock too.
I will try the clam next I believe.
Recty
New member
I'm not even sure how to go about establishing a harem of flame angels... I'd have to have them in QT which for me means 29g tanks, and I'd have a really hard time keeping 3-4 flame angels in there and happy for a month or two. I'd like to be able to just QT one or two, put them into my main tank then QT one or two more and put them into my main tank, but I'm afraid the first couple would be established and would harass the newcomers. I'll think about it though, I might do it
If you try the clam route, what I have done and been successful with in the past is break the clam open so its only on half a shell. Put it into a cup with a little bit of tank water. I then mix garlic into the tank water and let that all sit together for at least 15 minutes. Then pull it out, drain off the water and I took an exacto knife (razor blade or just a kitchen knife would work I'm sure) and made some really deep cuts into the clam in kind of a tic tac toe pattern. This makes some nice pieces of clam that "float" around attractively to a fishes eye but they are still hooked onto the main body of the clam. I think it might help it look more alive, maybe, having moving parts. Anyway, none of my fish but the scribbled could resist that
- Status
