Some opinions from those that use Cupramine

RBU1

Moving on Up
OK here is the deal....I have a 125 set up as a treatment tank. The fish have been in it since August and have been eating and doing great. As some of you are aware I used Paraguard to treat for 21 days to rid the tank and fish of parasites. Some people told me they did not feel comfortable with Paraguard riding my fish of ich so hence the Cupramine treatment. Well yesterday I added my first dose of Cuprmine 12ml and tested both yesterday and tonight and I am reading .25 right were I should be with the first dose. The tank has 2 black and white clowns a cleaner wrasse and juv emperor angel. Well today I come home from work and the emperor is not eating he was still swimming around but not eating like normal. Tonight I go down to check on things and the emperor is almost laying on the bottom. I know the copper level is not high because I only did the half dose. The other fish are swimming and eating like normal. What could be going on with the angel?
 
I think the copper can kill off some of the normal bacterial filter and cause a cycle. Have you checked the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels? What kind of filter are you using?
 
I think the copper can kill off some of the normal bacterial filter and cause a cycle. Have you checked the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels? What kind of filter are you using?

All of that is in check...

I have an emperor 400 hang on and a w/d rated for 125 gallons....
 
I would not be so worried about the not eating as some fish are affected this way with the addition of copper.The thing i would be worried about is the laying on the bottom.If he looks like he is having a bad reaction to half a dose then do a water change and run carbon.You can then decide how you want to proceed. HTH
 
I would not be so worried about the not eating as some fish are affected this way with the addition of copper.The thing i would be worried about is the laying on the bottom.If he looks like he is having a bad reaction to half a dose then do a water change and run carbon.You can then decide how you want to proceed. HTH

Well I kind of left things alone to see what happens....I am keeping my fingers crossed for the best. I am hoping that he is just stressing from the addition of the copper and will get used to it soon.....

I really do not understand how it can be bothering one fish but the other 3 are acting and eating like normal..One of the 3 fish is a cleaner wrasse. You would think it would bother that little guy the worst....Don't understand at all!!!!!!!
 
Yes its hard to say why the one fish is havng such adverse reaction to the copper..however if the fish recovers you could add the second part of the dose over a few days rather then all at once to see if that helps.
 
Yes its hard to say why the one fish is havng such adverse reaction to the copper..however if the fish recovers you could add the second part of the dose over a few days rather then all at once to see if that helps.

When I went down this morning before I left for work he was swimming around. So hopefully it was just the initial stress of the copper....I will give it another day before I add the next dose. Like you said I think I am going to split the 12ml up into 2 - 6ml doses and add them a couple days apart.
 
If possible, I would wait for the fish to begin eating well before adding the second dose. I have not had fish react negatively to Cupramine, but each fish is an individual, so keep a close eye on it and maybe have some water ready to do a large change and run carbon if the fish is in distress after the second dosing.
 
If possible, I would wait for the fish to begin eating well before adding the second dose. I have not had fish react negatively to Cupramine, but each fish is an individual, so keep a close eye on it and maybe have some water ready to do a large change and run carbon if the fish is in distress after the second dosing.

Thanks...

This is all your fault;) I was happy with the Paraguard.....LOL
 
:( Sorry, I am only trying to help.

Just busting your chops.....I want to keep ich out of my main tank. I am willing to listen...

I want to make sure I have this QT treatment thing figured out before I start getting the $500.00 fish.....
 
OK I am really baffled by the Cupramine treatment. After adding my first dose of 12ml my Emperor Angel is not eating. The first day after adding it he was not looking good at all and was laying on the bottom of the tank. Yesterday I was feeling a little better because he started swimming around again but still not eating. Now tonight he is back to being darn near laying on the bottom......Doesnt look good for the emperor and I am still not even at the treatment range for the cupramine. I am only at .25 the first dose. I am not dosing again till he gets used to it or goes to fish heaven. The other 3 fish in the tank 2 clowns and a cleaner wrasse are all acting normal eating and everything......I have no idea what is going on......Just maybe that angels cant take any amount of copper for some reason.
 
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Its not that angels don't tolerate Cupramine, as I've treated many angels of different types with no problems. I think it is possible that this fish has parasites that the Cupramine is killing and that is causing a problem, but more likely that your individual fish is not tolerating it well. If it were my fish I would either place him in a different system and treat with the tank transfer method or do a large water change, run carbon and/or cuprisorb and hope that the paraguard was adequate treatment. I don't use it, but a lot of people like hypo, so you could consider that as well. It doesn't sound like your emperor is likely to tolerate the Cupramine well.

Did you wait for the fish eating well again before you added Cupramine again?
 
Its not that angels don't tolerate Cupramine, as I've treated many angels of different types with no problems. I think it is possible that this fish has parasites that the Cupramine is killing and that is causing a problem, but more likely that your individual fish is not tolerating it well. If it were my fish I would either place him in a different system and treat with the tank transfer method or do a large water change, run carbon and/or cuprisorb and hope that the paraguard was adequate treatment. I don't use it, but a lot of people like hypo, so you could consider that as well. It doesn't sound like your emperor is likely to tolerate the Cupramine well.

Did you wait for the fish eating well again before you added Cupramine again?

I did not add any more cuprmaine this is still the first 12ml dose. I am not even in theureputic range yet according to Seachem. I think for some reason this fish is not tolerating it well. I am going to let things go and see what happens. He almost looks like he is really stressed. When the cleaner wrasse goes up to him he swims away but it almost looks like he is drunk. He will hold himself upright then start to look as if he is falling over then he moves his fins to go upright again.......Not sure......:sad2:

I also don't have another system to move him to and I want to get this treatment stuff ironed out so when I start treating more expensive fish I understand whats going on.....
 
Sorry, I misunderstood. You either have something else going on, or this fish is especially sensitive to copper. I still think that it is the individual, and not angels in general. If you have had the fish long enough to rule out other possible causes (i.e. disease, chemically collected), you're probably best off removing the Cupramine, getting the fish eating again, and then you could try again. However, I think this fish may just not tolerate copper and you may lose the fish.
 
Just a thought, are you adding anything else to the tank? Like an ammonia binder for instance? Running any chemical filtration? Some of these things will grab the amine group that the copper in Cupramine is bound to, releasing the copper and making it more toxic at a much lower concentration than Cupramine is normally.
 
Just a thought, are you adding anything else to the tank? Like an ammonia binder for instance? Running any chemical filtration? Some of these things will grab the amine group that the copper in Cupramine is bound to, releasing the copper and making it more toxic at a much lower concentration than Cupramine is normally.

No the only thing I added was bacteri stuff. But I checked to make sure that was OK to use. If it were something causing the copper to be more deadly I would think the other 3 fish would also be in trouble but they are fine. I think it is just this fish for some reason. I think it might be to late to do anything about it anyway. If I remove the copper my luck he will die anyway then I will have to start all over again for the other 3 fish. I think I will leave it alone and see if he pulls thru it. I feel bad because he was perfect before I added the copper. Wold eat right out of my hand. He has been in the tank for about 2 months.
 
OK I felt bad for the little guy laying on his side.....So I found a 1.5 gallon tupperware container and put him in it with some tank water from the 300. I have the container floating in the 125 along with an airstone in it. Not sure if he is going to make it but the copper concentration will be much less now. We will see how he does....
 
At times when I find my fishes not reacting well to copper or prazi I immediately perform a 25% WC to alleviate the stress condition. Next step is wait and see if it was the copper (or prazi) causing the stress. If the fish recovers over the next couple of days then redose in smaller amount. I find it much less stress on the fish when dosing copper or prazi over 48 hours then with their remmended dosing schedule. With copper you're going to treat minimum 14 days (I do 4 weeks minimum) so there's really no rush to bringing up the copper level.

Usually treating meds we shut down the skimmer therefore your PH may drop so I normally add more PHs.

I don't remember what you're using for filtration in this hospital tank but copper will kill the good bacterias as well so parameters is utmost important to monitor especially tanks with no LRs.

If it was me, I would do the WC and put the angel back in the hospital as the container is probably going to be too small and parameters can change quickly.
 
Well sad to say the little guy did not make it.....Now the question is WHY????

I have three other fish in the tank and just raised the copper level to theureputic range. I did my first dose of cupramine on Wed the 11th and it was 12ml. The Emperor stopped eating on Thurs the 12th and was laying on the bottom. I let things be and Friday he was still not eating but was swimming around again. This afternoon I checked on him and he was still swimming around but not eating then tonight he was laying on his side again. So I moved him to a container free of copper but I guess it was either to late or the stress from the move did him in. So now what can I do going forward to keep this from happening? It had to be the copper because I have had this fish for 2 months and he went thru a 21 day paraguard treatment and was eating the entire time.

So what can I do in the future????
 
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