Some thoughts on forum etiquette...

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jbird69

First - I read the original thread before happening upon this one. I have to admit, as I skimmed through one post after another, I found myself becoming more and more irritated by your contributions.

Second - I very rarely decide to involve myself is such a thread, and so, did not. I just left the thread feeling a vague sense of sympathy for the OP.

Now, even in this thread, you have continued your efforts to edify those of use whose morality, in respect to defenseless wildlife, you consider lacking. One could definitely accept your premise. Perhaps the OP of the other thread should have left the animals be. Perhaps. The problem is, IMHO, the way you go about creating a better world.

In the other thread you stated: "Now I know this is going to be hard to digest so I'll type it real slow okay??? O-P-I-N-I-O-N Ever hear of one of those? Ever have someone offer a different one from your own?"

Now, although the above statement is not your whole post, the context and meaning are fairly reflected. I must say, I have often had someone offer an opinion that differed widely from my own. However, I have very seldom has someone offer a differing opinion with such obvious - I have to call it as I see it - arrogance. Here, let my give you a couple of examples. Two of your posts:

"How do you know they will live in captivity? Its too bad their lives have become an experiment. It probably would have been wise to only collect one and see how it did before you harvested the whole beach? There are many species that are illegal to harvest. You obviously did not know what these things were but went ahead and collected them anyway. I think thats quite irresposible personally."

"Well, I just re read your original post, You really had no clue of what you collected according to your post. So your practicing to be a marine biologist and your asking us for an ID? And when you catch a little flack for what you did youre surprised?.... Well, anyway, you have fun with your new friends."

I think - and again, it's just my opinion - if you can read those two posts, and really not understand why you evoke such hostility, then we all have no option but to give up and go home. To all who think I'm way off base - have at me ....

BTW - I really had to force myself to post this after reading such heartfelt and honest posts by snorvich and BangkokMatt - but I just feel this needed to be said. I spend a lot of time on RC and I'm looking for knowledge, not controversy.
 
I think generally people want to see the animals in our tanks thrive and when a person pulls something from the ocean or buys something from the fish store without knowing the full extent of the needs of their said purchase, this is not good practice. I think most of us in the hobby have made mistakes in purchasing an animal that we knew nothing about but it is because of forums like this that we get the answers that we seek. I think that the best practice I have come to agree with is to not buy or take anything from the ocean for that matter without knowing enough about how to take of the animal.

Now the individuals that get upset at the fact that people have large tangs in a 10 gallon or purchase a Morrish Idol knowing full well that they are practically impossible to keep, I tend to agree with them. It is irresponsible to place these animals in an environment that they will not thrive in. All individuals in this hobby should have a deep appreciation for the animals that are placed in our aquariums and if you do not have this appreciation you should not be in this hobby. Most people on RC are here to help and do not take our responses as criticism, we are merely looking out for the well being of both the animals that are placed in our fish tanks and well as the owners of them. Just my 2 cents.

Josh
 
I did not intend to specifically call anyone from that thread out, or even to take sides in it, although I can see how it would seem that way when I reread my initial post. However since Jbird69 has stepped into the shoes as the bad guy I want to address what he is saying.

First of all, he is 100% correct that both sides were aggressive. I personally don't agree with his statement that the guy had no clue what he picked up, but I would prefer to keep that discussion in the other thread. I do think a lot of aggression came from the side of the initial poster, but my point is that WHO starts the fight is irrelevant.

Again, it doesn't matter if the newbie, or even experienced, poster is nasty to you. Getting nasty back is a big fat FAIL! If your goal is to look like a fool arguing on the internet then maybe it would be a success, but you should state that goal up front to save everyone the time it takes to read your posts.

It doesn't matter if this is the 100th time you have told this person they are wrong, doing it in an insulting way isn't going to improve it's effectiveness.

In fact, if you find yourself in the situation of telling someone 100 times they are wrong, that is a good time to take a reality check, step back, and look at your situation. You could be wrong. You could be telling them in a way that isn't easily understood. You could be 100% right, but that person simply doesn't respect you because you have been such a jerk in the past they automatically skip reading your posts, and therefore your message is lost.

If that's the case, getting even nastier isn't going to improve your ethos. Remember, people follow the advice that comes from people that they respect.
 
Thumbs up! :) You know what would be a nice feature for ReefCentral? If you are a member for long enough and you are nice. You should be able to get a tag that says "I am nice". And then when you went to make new posts, you could limit the responses to "Other people who are nice". Sound like a good idea?
 
RC is an open forum..... there are A-holes.... go to a bar there are A-holes. thats just life. I didn't read the entire eel thread, but even by the first page it was going downhill. I cannot speak for Jbirds later comments but his first one was not a flame. In fact the only one I really read getting a bit hostile on the first page was the OP. I think that the written word lacks a lot of information and it can be read many ways. On a site with as many folks on it as RC there is bound to be disagreements.

basically when I disagree with someone on RC I try to do it politely. If they do not reply in kind I just don't pay them any attention. That is my solution :smokin:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14761864#post14761864 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by anathema
You could be 100% right, but that person simply doesn't respect you because you have been such a jerk in the past they automatically skip reading your posts, and therefore your message is lost.

If that's the case, getting even nastier isn't going to improve your ethos. Remember, people follow the advice that comes from people that they respect.

I haven't been on this site for very long, but have been in the hobby for 3 yrs which I know isn't very long. And totally agree with this post. I know there are certain people whose posts I will not even read. They could be right, but for what ever reason I don't value that persons opinion because of past posts.
 
+1 anathema
I caught that thread last nite and like so many other threads before it, I just quit reading once I saw where it was going. Way too much of it here and on any MB for that matter. General rule of thumb: If you wouldn't say it face to face for fear of getting your nose broken, then you probably shouldn't post it.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14761757#post14761757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GlassReef
jbird69

First - I read the original thread before happening upon this one. I have to admit, as I skimmed through one post after another, I found myself becoming more and more irritated by your contributions.

Second - I very rarely decide to involve myself is such a thread, and so, did not. I just left the thread feeling a vague sense of sympathy for the OP.

Now, even in this thread, you have continued your efforts to edify those of use whose morality, in respect to defenseless wildlife, you consider lacking. One could definitely accept your premise. Perhaps the OP of the other thread should have left the animals be. Perhaps. The problem is, IMHO, the way you go about creating a better world.

In the other thread you stated: "Now I know this is going to be hard to digest so I'll type it real slow okay??? O-P-I-N-I-O-N Ever hear of one of those? Ever have someone offer a different one from your own?"

Now, although the above statement is not your whole post, the context and meaning are fairly reflected. I must say, I have often had someone offer an opinion that differed widely from my own. However, I have very seldom has someone offer a differing opinion with such obvious - I have to call it as I see it - arrogance. Here, let my give you a couple of examples. Two of your posts:

"How do you know they will live in captivity? Its too bad their lives have become an experiment. It probably would have been wise to only collect one and see how it did before you harvested the whole beach? There are many species that are illegal to harvest. You obviously did not know what these things were but went ahead and collected them anyway. I think thats quite irresposible personally."

"Well, I just re read your original post, You really had no clue of what you collected according to your post. So your practicing to be a marine biologist and your asking us for an ID? And when you catch a little flack for what you did youre surprised?.... Well, anyway, you have fun with your new friends."

I think - and again, it's just my opinion - if you can read those two posts, and really not understand why you evoke such hostility, then we all have no option but to give up and go home. To all who think I'm way off base - have at me ....

BTW - I really had to force myself to post this after reading such heartfelt and honest posts by snorvich and BangkokMatt - but I just feel this needed to be said. I spend a lot of time on RC and I'm looking for knowledge, not controversy.

I was going to add to this thread but Glassreef did a better job of saying what I wanted to say. The only thing I would add to those that are tired of of the same old silly questions, remember that many people don't spend a ton of time on the site and if you are not an RC 'supporter' the search function is pretty useless.

I feel bad that we have so many fish in our hobby that cannot be captive bred (most notably almost every tang is wild caught). So we are paying people to condemn these fish to a life in a glass box and inevitably many are killed before they even make it to our tanks. But I do it anyway. Are any of us in the hobby guilt-free enough to be casting stones?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14761481#post14761481 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BangkokMatt
On the other hand, it can be extremely frustrating to read about the same 'mistakes' time and time again. I am not referring to anything on the 'new to the hobby' forum but in other specific forums.
People have problems despite them being an RC member for x number of years and having several posts. Surely by then, these mistakes can easily be avoided - but, quite often they are not.

I really hate the term 'police' on these boards. Generally the term is used as a flame against people who condemn poor husbandry. This thread is about not flaming yet that term is, quite simply, a flame - and a great get out clause if you have not done the homework on your fish. The fact that the OP has used this term is poor etiquette in itself. Ironic!
If it were a dog forum and owners were keeping their dogs in inappropriate conditions there would be uproar. But, as it's fish people seem to think it's ok.

I do not condone being rude to fellow RC members at all but, at times, can be frustrating.

(I have not read the post in question and I am not referring to that specific post in this thread)

I am in total agreement with Matt. A well written posting.
 
Matt and Steve:

Consider this situation: A police officer who has been assigned to slow down traffic in a small town, and quickly grows tired of it. He is constantly amazed that he can sit 1/4 mile down the road from a big sign that states the speed limit, yet people will be exceeding the speed limit when he clocks them. More puzzling yet, they seem to be frustrated with HIM for ticketing them, when they are clearly breaking the law.

One day, he decides he's going to fix the problem. He soon clocks a car at a high rate of speed, and proceeds to pull him over. He walks up to the window, and shoots the driver, killing him instantly. Haha, that guy won't speed again!

He keeps this up all day, and by the end of the shift, he is happy to find himself on the evening news. Awesome, he thinks to himself, people will finally stop speeding through my town!

The next morning, he sets himself up at his usual speedtrap, and is amazed when the first car hits city limits at over 100 mph. He proceeds to give chase, yet the culprit gets away. This pattern continues through the shift, and it is very frustrating. Finally, he catches someone, and before he shoots them, he questions them on why the driver is STILL speeding.

The answer? "Well if you are running around shooting people, I'm going to try and run!"

Yeah, a poorly written parable, but think about it. If you act aggressively based on the excuse that you have told a ton of other people about the same problem, the most common result will be a lot of people confused and wondering why you are so mean. Often, this will provoke the exact opposite result from what you state as your goal.

Cops face this frustration EVERY day. There are very valid reasons they are required to treat everyone respectfully. Imagine if they acted like the tang police!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14762406#post14762406 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by anathema
Imagine if they acted like the tang police!
Again, inflammatory and poor etiquette from the OP, despite me stating that comments such as this are considered poor etiquette earlier. I give up! Am out of here.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14762442#post14762442 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BangkokMatt
Again, inflammatory and poor etiquette from the OP, despite me stating that comments such as this are considered poor etiquette earlier. I give up! Am out of here.

I agree completely with you. A thread about etiquette that seems to be lacking it.
 
I guess what they say about humor in a post being easily misunderstood is true. :p

You can say whatever you want about my tactics guys. The fact remains, you kill more fish by acting aggressive than you save by being rude.

I have never said the people who keep animals in unsafe conditions were right, simply that being rude to them is unlikely to change the conditions they keep their animals in. You can defend your right to flame all you want.
 
Also, as far as the term "police" being a flame, I always thought that the tang police named themselves. Heck, I've seen posters with banners and sigs that proclaim themselves "proud members of the tang police." Personally, I disagree that the term "tang police" is a flame. I think it's a name some people wear with pride, and others use as a negative identifier. It's not simply a flame, and I wasn't attempting to disrespect you, I simply disagree with your opinion.

Admittedly, I haven't been on the boards for a year or so, but I have never met someone who claimed to be ashamed that they were tang police, except you. If it bothers you that much, I apologize.
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14762547#post14762547 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by anathema
I guess what they say about humor in a post being easily misunderstood is true. :p

You can say whatever you want about my tactics guys. The fact remains, you kill more fish by acting aggressive than you save by being rude.

I have never said the people who keep animals in unsafe conditions were right, simply that being rude to them is unlikely to change the conditions they keep their animals in. You can defend your right to flame all you want.

Hey anathema. welcome to my shoes! :lol: :lol: What was intended to educate and share a point of view backfired.:confused: :p :lol: I actually agreed with most of what you said here. excluding the 2nd and 3rd paragraph in your first post :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14762642#post14762642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jbird69
Hey anathema. welcome to my shoes! :lol: :lol: What was intended to educate and share a point of view backfired.:confused: :p :lol: I actually agreed with most of what you said here. excluding the 2nd and 3rd paragraph in your first post :D

I WIN! :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14762684#post14762684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by IridescentLily
*headdesk*

Some day you will learn *FACEPALM* is so much less painful. :D
 
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