Something has got to give!!!!

[pewter_jean]

I am at my wits end. and just about ready to put something thru that
_____ tank! It is driving me crazy. It has been up since July and I can't get this _____ tank to stabalize, or what ever. I keep doing exactly as told. and it just keeps getting worse.
everything was ok, until those fish died three four months ago. then a big pain in the butt since then. Now nothing else has died yet. and I stress yet. After the fish died the nitrates went up to 20, did water changes to bring it down, in a few weeks the nitrates worked their way up to 40, Than a couple of weeks ago it was up to 60. But no matter how many water changes I do, the nitrates keep going up. and up. and up. Then Friday had problems with a few corals not looking so good. I tested and the alk was 2.06 and ph 7.7. nitrate at 80. Steve figured out the dosing for the baking soda and the ph buffer for my tank size, and I dosed as he said. and did water changes over the weekend. Now after doing waterchanges over the weekend, Yesterday the nitrates are way past the 80, if there is a difference between my test and the 100, I couldn't see it. So did another waterchange yesterday, everything looked fine, Get home from work this morning, the tank is totally clouded up. Now if it was the ph, alk
thing that happened a couple weeks ago, then wouldn't it have happened right after the waterchange(like last time) not a day later.
I know you all will want to know so here are the tests
Yesterday before water change.
PH - 8.0-test kit, 8.1-monitor
Nitrite - zero
Amonia - 0.25
Nitrate - 100 American Pharmicy, 100 Sailifert test
alk 3.70
calcuim 450
Salinity 1.025
Temp82.4
NOW MY MAKE UP WATER FOR THE WATERCHANGE
PH 8.2 monitor
alk 3.77
Salinity 1.025
temp 82.3
This morning when I got home from work:
PH 8.0
Nitrite - zero
Amonia -0.25
Nitrate - 100, immediatly change that dark
alk - 3.66
cakcuim -450
Salinity - 1.025
Temp - 82.1
All fish were present and acounted for, the corals seem ok this morning, coco worm was out, chili was puffed up, hammers fine. But the sailfin is very stressed, he was almost solid white. I know the nitrates are getting to them, but I am doing the best I can.
The only thing I can't do a head count on is the snails, But in a 180, I would imagine if a snail died, it wouldn't effect the water like this.
Yes running carbon, the XP3 if full with just carbon, and I have a big bag in the sump. Yes I have the skimmer runing as best as it can. Steve helped me get the gatevalve on over the weekend, but it still doesn't what to pull that much out. In 4 days, I have less that a 1/4 in the collection cup.
Yes, I am using RO water. I have been running my unit almost non stop for the last 2 to 3 months, and yes I have replace the filters several times. I've even replace the unit around Thanks giving, and already replaced filters in that unit. and need to again. I've been doing waterchanges 2 and 3 times a week at 30 to 50 gallons a pop.
So why is my water milky white again? Why wont it settle down?
Steve has been a big help, And I appreciate his patience with me. But it seems like for every step forward I take I get pushed back two.

 

[Dert42]

doesn't macro algea break bring down nitrate levels?
i could be totally wrong on that.

 

[pewter_jean]

I have that in the sump too.

 

[DrBDC]

Sounds like a precipitation event if the water was cloudy. That or something spawned. Precipitation can only happen if the pH is over 8.6 or so or the magnesium levels are too low.

Fish are not really bothered by nitrate. Many fish only tanks will be 100-200 although I wouldn't like it in my tank either. Denitrification should be occurring in the sand bed and live rock. Are there any filter socks, sponges, etc. that are used to block bubbles or grab detrius? If so, ditch them asap you don't need them. There are ways around that if you feel they are needed for some purpose.

The substrate isn't crushed coral is it?

 

[pewter_jean]

No filter socks, sponges etc. to catch bubbles, when I designed to sump, put in 6 glass baffle that the water has to go over and under to get to the return pump. I don't have any bubble in the tank. Tank bed is sand.
280lbs of live sand, and 280, almost 300lbs of live rock. All this rock and sand I had for at least 9months cycleing in tanks, about 150lbs of each was in my established tanks for 3 years.

 

[beapeams]

How do you provide calcium for the tank? I use a Kalc Drip and Seachems Reef Advantage(has Mag and Strotnium) Every since I used this combo my PH, Alk, and Calcium have stabalized. Also, how much and how often are you feeding your fish? how do you run your skimmer? If you do not already light your fuge 24/7, try that for a while to help increase macro growth. Also, make sure your fuge does not have to high of a flow going through it, that will affect the macros growth as well.

 

[pewter_jean]

I have never had to add calcuim to the tank. I don't know where it comes from. We finally are getting it down. It was at around 700 to 800. I think that is what was messing with the alk and ph. Over the weekend, getting the alk and ph back up a bit the calcuim has finally started to fall. As far as the calcuim coming from the salt, I am using Instant Ocean, I believe that is suppose to be low or no calcuim added.

 

[frenchie]

don't know if it will help but i like to use stress zyme and bio zyme every so often for bio boost mainly since i use a cannister filter also full of ceramic noodles and bio sponge, it helps recharge my filters bio filtration. I know some say cannisters create nitrate build up but last time i cleaned i almost lost my whole tank killed bio load in cannister.

 

[pewter_jean]

I know this for sure, When I had the same fish,plus the ones that died in the die off and same corals in my 75, running my two emperor 400's I didn't have nitrates like this. I don't think they ever got above 20. I went with the bigger tank, and the sump because it was suppose to help.
I am not seeing it yet.

 

[frenchie]

it does work for me i have 125 gallon with a 4.5 gallon hang on fuge 2 hang on skimmers remora pro with rio 2500 on it and prizm pro deluxe, cascade 1500 cannister, red mangroves and chaeto in hang on fuge, my tank is not drilled and don't have room in stand for a sump and my water parameters usually test good i only have problems with phosphates here and there.

 

[frenchie]

how is circulation in your tank poor water circulation in areas can cause fish waste and left over food to build up and cause problems

 

[frenchie]

i would try stress zyme and bio zyme the only thing that could happen is that it would work. I use it all the time petco carries saltwater bio zyme in red container yellow container is for freshwater.

 

[DrBDC]

Is the macro cheato or caulerpa? If cheato give it about a 8 hour break from light. If caulepa light it 24/7.

7-800 calcium!! Were you using oceanic? That is an issue that can't be casually brushed off. Where it's coming from MUST be determined. IO mixed to 1.026 will have about 380 ca and 11 dKh and mag about 1280. If you mix up your water change water and it doesn't test out at that, there is something wrong that needs to be determined. Either your refractometer needs calibrating, test kits are expired, used wrong, or even the container the water sample being tested from has buildup. Maybe even a dirty syringe to draw the water sample.

You're only running carbon in the cannister correct? If you're running any other media in there except carbon and maybe some phosban(or similar) that can def. be an issue. Sponges in there are cleaned at least every other week as well as the carbon changed out. Some will leave the carbon in for a month or so(me) but it's usefulness is actually pretty well used up after just a few days.

 

[frenchie]

read this add about bio zyme

 

[pewter_jean]

Circulation in tank is a mag 24 for the return, 2x seio 2600's and 1 seio 1500. I haven't seen any dead spots.

If I didn't know better, I would almost think my son is putting something in the tank after I leave for work at night. But I do know better, because he has no doubt in his mind I would actually KILL him. and he would no longer have a place to live. So I don't think he is that stupid. But how everything goes. I almost seems like that. Like I said earlier, I have done everything told to do. so it should be getting better.

 

[DrBDC]

Go ahead and test your water change water for the big 3 and nitrate too then report back.

 

[frenchie]

here is what i run in my cannister there are 4 stages first has sponge which is really course not a fine sponge, and next two is now actually bio matrix from seachem and stage is another coarse foam i use cannister strictly for bio filtration only. I use hang on filter for carbon sock and phosban sock for now i'm in the process of getting two phosban reactors one for carbon and one for phosban media so i can ditch the hang on filter.

here is a link to seachem matrix i use, and is not to be replace just rinsed


here is sponge i use in first and last stage of cannister

 

[pewter_jean]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8885329#post8885329 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DrBDC
Is the macro cheato or caulerpa? If cheato give it about a 8 hour break from light. If caulepa light it 24/7.

7-800 calcium!! Were you using oceanic? That is an issue that can't be casually brushed off. Where it's coming from MUST be determined. IO mixed to 1.026 will have about 380 ca and 11 dKh and mag about 1280. If you mix up your water change water and it doesn't test out at that, there is something wrong that needs to be determined. Either your refractometer needs calibrating, test kits are expired, used wrong, or even the container the water sample being tested from has buildup. Maybe even a dirty syringe to draw the water sample.

You're only running carbon in the cannister correct? If you're running any other media in there except carbon and maybe some phosban(or similar) that can def. be an issue. Sponges in there are cleaned at least every other week as well as the carbon changed out. Some will leave the carbon in for a month or so(me) but it's usefulness is actually pretty well used up after just a few days.

The macro is caulepa, sump light is on 24/7.
Salt is Instant Ocean, Mixed it to 1.025, the test results were posted earlier. My DH was 10.2. Refragmeter is brand new, about two weeks old,and freshly calibrated. Somthing happened to the other one and couldn't see thru it anymore.
The XP3 has all three baskets just full of carbon. I have been changing that every week or two., My sump has the largest micron bag they had at gateway full of carbon also.
I used two different test kits, different equipment to do both test. They each came out the same.100 nitrates. The Ph is a test kit and a new monitor, The alk test is about a month old(salifert) About the only test that aren't double checked in some sort of way is the nitrite and the calcuim.

 

[frenchie]

no one every bought second cannister from me the only one the was going to was you DRBDC but since no one did i put it on tank also so i run 2 cannister with 4 liters of seachem matrix which is triple the bio filtration needed for a 125 gallon. been running since july nitrates 10, 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia, 8.2ph, 80 degrees water temp, 380 on calcium but i only have softies. Phosphates getting better.

 

[pewter_jean]

I don't have any water change water made up yet. I used that yesterday for the water change, Those results were from that water. I still have to wait for the RO to fill up the can again to make a new batch. It usally takes all day to fill up the brut can, Then I add my salt, powerhead, and heater, let it run for a day, change water, and start all over again. So it takes about 2 days to get water for my water changes, That is why it seems like for the last 7 months all I do when I'm not working, is work all day on this tank.