SPS advice...on STN

[duec22]

Well, it been a couple of weeks since my salt overdose. Most of my acros seem to be doing OK since then. Recession has stoped on my bali blue, and the bonsi even shows signs of regrowth. However some of my acros still don't seem to be doing so hot. The ROAB hot pink prostrata I got from Karl is almost gone with only tissue on the tips, and yesterday I noticed a white ring at the base of my Org.Tort :mad2: . I checked the salinity with a hydrometer it's at 1.025, so I don't think the salt is an issue again, although the Mg test kit I have tested the Mg at like 1380 wich is a bit high. Other parmeters are NO2/NO3=0, CA=410, alk=9dKH. Not sure why the Mg is so high but I'm useing IO salt, and it tests like that new for several different bags. So either it's the IO or my test kit is bad (I think it's a RedSea).

So, what should I do with the frags that show recession? Can I just take a razor blade and cut above the spots that show recession and hope they heal?

 

[Justin74]

Double edged sword going for a crapshoot If you dont frag them, your definately risking whats left to see the same future it's base with the white ring saw. At the same time fragging will stress the coral and could result in ultimately pushing it over the edge.

That being said I have fragged before, and lost everything.Why? I think a couple reasons.First for the one I mentioned before, due to an already stressed/dying coral just couldnt take it. The second could be the way that I fragged it. Possibly I didnt get rid of all the receeding tissue therefore still allowing it to progress on now a smaller piece of coral. Or, possibly my lack of sanitation caried the infection to the new frags in the process of me fraggin them.

I would suggest two things. If it looks like theres any hope leave it alone, till its obvious the recession will NOT stop.
For those that are already at this point frag 'em! Just make sure to handle as less as possible, and remove at least a centimeter or two above the dying line, as not to carry it over to your newly made frag. This is still iffy, and my self currently have had no luck in doing so. But, I have heard claims of success, but they were cutting large corals and a few inches above the recession, and from what Im gathering sounds like it's key to success in this process.

Good luck David!

-Justin

 

[Nu2SW]

I dont have any advice for ya, Im not a SPS guy But good luck with this.

 

[tfp]

david,
my experience with any major swings such as (salinity, alk, reduced lighting) is that each coral responds differently and to compound things...each responds with various time latencies

you might see a couple more acros go bad even after 3 weeks after the swing. some are hardier and able to pull thru, some aren't.

if the stn is occuring daily, i'd frag it.

at least you were able to color up karls hot pink milli mine has encrusted well but hasn't shown any pink yet.

 

[duec22]

Mine had just gotten pink befor this all started. Now I just have three brown tips, but all the polys are out and the recession is soo slow that you can't really notice it from day to day.

Could the high Mg be causing problems? I think I may bring some water into work on Monday and have it tested by ICPMS to double check my test kit. I have been trying to lowwer my salinity down a little more to dillute out the Mg, but it's a pain bringing the Ca and Alk back up really slowly.

I think I also need to get some more carbon, just incase there are any nasties in the water collumn.

 

[dots]

Its really on how see the decay as RTN or SRTN? As I am sure you know an irritation turns to RSTN which is reversible, but the ugly brother is STN. Frag the STN stuff, you don't have much time.

For example: I spiked my Alk about two months ago and got RSTN on about every single piece, lost a few snail, a fish and you know what can happen then.....

Anyway I thought I was going to loose the tank but got it stabilized and only fragged one piece. The others because the were replacable I decided to ride out and to see what would happen.

I suggest not to do ANY more water changes in a effort to stabilze the system check the salinity and Alk as much as you can to insure the stability. I know its hard to watch, but a major swing from good to high, then high to low is twice as bad, let them adjust and let the levels fall, if they are close to optimal range (11dkh), If it like 20dkh, then yeah change a little but just to get it lower. Even after a couple of days, they still will SRTN a little then stop. However its a waiting gaime and a time bomb when dealing with this. I would suggest cutting and running as a last resort.....sort of a retreat, but if RTN is biotic as peiple say, it may not do any good and may still loose the frags.

I feel for you, one of the worst things to watch. I made a cut point, point of no return, and told myself if the SRTN got past that I was cutting them. Turns out they got to those points and stopped. Since then all have recovered and reencrusted over the ol dead pieces. I got lucky, hopefully you will too. Get it stabilzed and watch, is the best you can do....by the way what level was the salt at?


Brings up a good point. The people like ourselves who are into the SPS heavily should get a tank buddy program where we give each other frags as "rent" but under the gentlemens agreement if you loose yours, that you would get a frag of that free one back. Sort of a safety deposit box.....because this will all happen to us eventually.

I just got a Tubs purple polypbirdsnest, purple w/ocean blue polyp stylo, and ATL Bonsai the other day and don't want to loose those expensive things to STN!!!

 

[duec22]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7926707#post7926707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sacramentodots
I suggest not to do ANY more water changes in a effort to stabilze the system check the salinity and Alk as much as you can to insure the stability. Even after a couple of days, they still will SRTN a little then stop.

That makes sense. I actually did do a water change last weekend, and it was a few days after this that I noticed the Org. Tort starting to develops some white around the base. The days leading up to the WC I had become convinced that all the damage was done, as I had started to see new growth on a couple of frags...OK so no more water chages for another month or two...give everything lots of time to get back in shape.

The salt level had gotten up to about 1.03? but I don't think it had gotten up higher than 1.032, and for how long I don't know. I think I need to pay closer attention to the salinity with as much two part as I am needing to add to the system since upgrading. I'm going though about 1L of each of the two parts evey three weeks or so. funny thing is that my Montis have done great though this whole thing.

Thanks you all for the advice so far, the learning curve in this hobby is truely amazing, and there is always something new to learn.

 

[duec22]

One other ? I've been feeding Rotifeast about an hour or two after the lights go out every other day in hopes to give the SPS suplimental food. I thought this might be a good thing since I rememer Eric Borneman saying that wild corals were much more likely to recover from a bleaching event when they are able to get food from the water column. Sould I keep this pracitice up, or am I just loading up my system with nutrients?

 

[dots]

I think it would be a good thing to feed them. I had even thought since you said they were browning maybe they needed more light.

My theory is that now they are trying to recover and need as much energy as possible, hence the browning and increase of that hard spelling bacteria that I am not going to even attempt at right now!!!

They will need an enormous amount of energy to fight this off and recover.

But in all honesty, we don't really know what or why this happens to begin with(RTN/SRTN), so your guess is as good as any. Hopefully if we experiment and note what happens every time, maybe we can fix it....

 

[Justin74]

Im becoming a firm believer in just that as well David. Feed those bad boys! Maybe its me just wishing it so, but the coloration on all my SPS has been nothing short of amazing. Its been a couple months since my last waterchange, so Ive been doing nothing but supplement with kalk, feed mysis,pelletsand rotifeast. I do rotifeast 1-2 times a week typically, a whole capfull at a time.Is it the lights?the food?the flow?Has to be

-Justin

 

[dots]

I hope you have a refractometer after this episode....Marine Depot has an affordable one if you don't.

And I know its overkill and most don't do it, but I test my alk daily before adding two-part so that I ensure the proper doseage based on uptake. Makes for a stabilized system. Takes me about a minute now to test for the alk.

 

[duec22]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7926913#post7926913 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sacramentodots

And I know its overkill and most don't do it, but I test my alk daily before adding two-part so that I ensure the proper doseage based on uptake. Makes for a stabilized system. Takes me about a minute now to test for the alk.

I test twice every other day (at least most times). Once befor I add the supliments, and once a couple of hours after. With John's pricing on his test kits, I don't worry about burning though them.

 

[Unarce]

Sorry to hear about this, Dave Any updates?

 

[otterpop510]

sorry to hear.. frank from marine tropical oasis just talked at our BAR meeting this past saturday and shared that he used seachem reef dip when his corals were STN/RTN'ing as a first measure prior to fragging and felt it helped often enough.

what he said he would do is use a q-tip swab and dip straight into the reef dip (full strength), then take afflicted coral out of water and apply dipped q-tip directly to problem area and around the problem area. sit for 30 sec to 1 min (he said a short time) then either put back in or into a dip bucket for a little while, then back into his holding tank. i haven't tried it yet, but it sounds promising..

good luck with your corals.. its true though, sometimes the corals just stablize on their own and are able to grow back, but fragging may be best a inch or two up if it doesn't look too good, as cutting lower often leads to continued STN/RTN since whatever it is, is continuing farther up underneath the skin..

 

[duec22]

The recessions is so slow that it's hard to tell if it's stoped. The only problem with trying to frag some of these like the Org.Tort is that they are still frags as is. I totaly lost one I got from John a couple months ago...it was a nice florecent yellow/green with pinkish poylps...Most of the frags that are showing damage have only been in the tank for a couple of months with the exception of the Bali stag, and that one was wierd. I had just fraged it for Johns grow out tank, about a week later is when the STN started on this coral first, the base was receeding while the two tips that were cut had regrown and started to put out new braches... ONe other thing I may try is cutting the intensity of the lights so that all 6 bulbs are't shineing on the corals at the same time..
One possitive is that my Cali Tort has never looked better the base has gotten a nice deep purple color to it where is was kind of fadded befor.

 

[dots]

If its slowed to as you say, I say you might be on the road to recovery, granted you stay stabilized. Mine did that too and was totaly reencrusted over the dead within a month. IMO its easier for the coral to reencrust over the dead rather than regrow from nothing. So you might be in the clear. But watch out they are weak and are still waiting to give you any reason to RTN.

 

[duec22]

Yeah, I think the worst is behind me, and I'm keeping a close eye on water parameters...testing every day I get home. The only one that I'm really concerned about is the Org.Tort just because that one just started showing signs or recession last week (after I did the water change). However this frag bleached and STN'd when I first intoduced it to the system and it came back pretty fast, so I'm hopeing it does the same thing. The frag that I just lost...it sucked, but at least it was only a $10 frag...got to love John's prices...and I know that there were a few frags that made it out to members so I'm pretty sure frags will be available though the club in the future.

 

[duec22]

I thought of something last night about my lights. I swiched one of my lights from the aquablue plus to a 10k Midday Sun. I don't remeber if the STN started befor or after I did the switch. However, most of the STN appears to be occuring on the sides of the corals that are being hit by the new 10K sun bulb. So, I swiched the bulbs back and cut the time they are on to about 3 hrs, with the actinics still on for 10hrs...I dont' know if the 10K was the cause, or maybe just an increased stresser, but I figure I'd rule it out.

 

[Underwaterparadise]

IME 1.025 on a hydrometer is really 1.030-1.032. I have tested 10 of them next to a refractometer ( a friends) and all of them were off by .05-.07 These were all used ones. And I still haven't bought a refractometer

 

[loup]

my suggestion is to invest in a refractometer. $40 is a small price to pay to ensure your salinity is in check. 1380 mg is fine, I run mine close to 1350. Anytime you change bulb to different ones, you'll want to acclimate your sps over a few days to adjust to the new light.

I had one sps stn on me recently, I watched it like a hawk over a 1 week period and it was slowly still stn. I frag it into 3 pieces and place them in various spot. 2 of the 3 are doing showing growth again and recovering. Yeah it hurts when you have to frag em to save em and its a risk at time. Hope your frag recovers.