SPS Coral bleaching from bottom - STN ?

It sounds like you are possibly starving the corals with the ulns approach.You can try feeding a bit heavier and adding Amino acids to see if that helps.
How is your PE,are your colors light/pastel
 
Could STN be caused by a shortage of some trace elements ? overdosing one of the elements ?

Other assumptions ? Anyone else experienced this thing ? any other treatment someone used on his tank ?

thanks,

Roiy

I would think cutting back on the additives for a week or 2 to see how the corals react may be something to think about also
 
I would think cutting back on the additives for a week or 2 to see how the corals react may be something to think about also

I thought about it.
As for additives I dosed 7.5ml per day (approx 50ml per week) for 500L water (kind like the manufacture recommends).
I started taking it down to 5ml per day (70% of the initial amount).

Do you think i should take it down some more ?

I Dose 2 kind of fauna's amino acid every day along with some other fauna stuff
but i don't think the corals are really starving.
Is this type of death is common for millopora corals ? STN from the bottom ?

thanks for the info all :spin3:
 
I just found this thread...I had same problem. at first, some of the coral are whitening at the base. At first, I thought my alk and Ca. and found out they all are at normal sea water level since I use NSW, only Ca at higher level at 520ppm. Then slowly other sps followed. I stepped back and thought of everything different that I did. I also fragged a few and broght it home to other tank too, newly established. Same problemmmm...The only thing that I did was put PFO in same reactor with Carbon....I immediate change the reactor to only Carbon without PFO on both of the tank and change 30% water.... Everthing seems to stop right away....RTN seems to stop all SPS....And now, they are growing again....Even the frags that I bought home, thought was hopeless since half of the frag was white, aer now showing PE and coloring up now.... I think either PFO with Carbon in same reactor are BAD or PFO probably too much, causing this RTN....Just my .02 cent...Hope you find out your problem....
 
Mostly my acro's and my torts. My mille's are all doing really good and my monti's are good. I've recently noticed that my tri-color is loosing color, its not STN at all just not as bold as it used to be. I lost my Joe the Coral, and my Blue Voodoo already. My Cali Tort is not far behind.

I run a two little fishies reactor with Seachem's Seagel in it, its a part Carbon part Phosphate remover. I've always had that on my tank though, well the last 2 years atleast while I've been doing SPS. In talking with Kevin Cohen at the Dr's Foster & Smith tour a few weeks ago he referenced an article he read where someone tested the skimate and concluded that running carbon could be equally effective to running a large skimmer. I think on his SPS tank in his office he's running a Euroreef, with a reactor with carbon, a calcium reactor and his 4 vortechs. So I dono. He's also doing BB which I've been considering lately just to remove that potential nitrate source.
 
Mostly my acro's and my torts. My mille's are all doing really good and my monti's are good. I've recently noticed that my tri-color is loosing color, its not STN at all just not as bold as it used to be. I lost my Joe the Coral, and my Blue Voodoo already. My Cali Tort is not far behind.

I run a two little fishies reactor with Seachem's Seagel in it, its a part Carbon part Phosphate remover. I've always had that on my tank though, well the last 2 years atleast while I've been doing SPS. In talking with Kevin Cohen at the Dr's Foster & Smith tour a few weeks ago he referenced an article he read where someone tested the skimate and concluded that running carbon could be equally effective to running a large skimmer. I think on his SPS tank in his office he's running a Euroreef, with a reactor with carbon, a calcium reactor and his 4 vortechs. So I dono. He's also doing BB which I've been considering lately just to remove that potential nitrate source.

I run 2 reactors separately with fauna's marin carbon and rowaphos as a phosphate absorber yet i have been doing that for more than a year now.
I changed both with the same quantity as it was 3 weeks ago...
hm... could make some lead also.
 
Doing some quick research on the internet, I found that in some cases corals tend to bleach or STN do to overexposure to light.

I am experiencing this with some of my corals. One system, two displays, one showing STN. Couldn't figure out what it was until now. This is due too much oxydation in corals (creating free radicals). They also say that vitamins C and D (and some other chem bond) help with this overexposure.
 
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Here is another article that says that low nutrient systems are possible causes for necrosis.

"Comment at this point: Starvation in animals results in a loss of body tissue and low fat stores, and this is observed to occur with basically normal body chemistry parameters such as C:N ratio. (The diagnosis of food-starvation is based purely on low body weight/length, there is no chemical test for it.) Impaired reproduction and weakened immunity are also well known side effects of undernutrition. Compare this information with the following excerpt from Martin Pecheux's comprehensive literature review on coral bleaching:

"œTissue of bleached corals shows general atrophy and necrosis. There is 30-50% less tissue per surface, with a normal C:N ratio (Szmant and Gassman, 1990)...one "œhealthy"-looking Pocillopora was in early stage of necrosis (loss of architecture, basophilic tinge in mesoglea), from which it was concluded that the problem is on the animal side, with maybe thereafter nutrient-starvation of zooxanthellae (Glynn et. al., 1985). Gonads are reduced and reproduction is generally impaired...Bleached corals had half normal lipid levels (Glynn et. al., 1985). Phenoloxidase, a biomarker of immune capability, was found to have lower activity in bleached and semi-bleached M. annularis (Scith, 1992). Secondary parasites were observed in a few cases (fungus, bacteria). There is no transmission of bleaching following iso-allo-and xenografts...During bleaching there is no visible calcification." (Taken from Pecheux, 1992)

There is good reason to suspect that the low lipid reserves and lowered immunity features precede the bleaching event rather than result from it, as one might suspect. Widespread outbreaks of infectious diseases and parasitic problems among (not bleached) corals have been another cause of serious concern to reef scientists, also starting only in recent years. And, as mentioned earlier, slowed growth of (not bleached) corals has actually been occurring in some "œpristine" areas for decades. Therefore it is reasonable to suspect that some underlying factor has caused these changes and thereby weakened coral communities as a whole, and predisposed many corals now to "œbleaching" under temperature stress. Food-deprivation is certainly consistent with the pattern of presenting symptoms (slowed growth, low lipid reserves, lowered immunity and reproduction, ultimate death). "
 
Here is another article that says that low nutrient systems are possible causes for necrosis.

"Comment at this point: Starvation in animals results in a loss of body tissue and low fat stores, and this is observed to occur with basically normal body chemistry parameters such as C:N ratio. (The diagnosis of food-starvation is based purely on low body weight/length, there is no chemical test for it.) Impaired reproduction and weakened immunity are also well known side effects of undernutrition. Compare this information with the following excerpt from Martin Pecheux's comprehensive literature review on coral bleaching:

"œTissue of bleached corals shows general atrophy and necrosis. There is 30-50% less tissue per surface, with a normal C:N ratio (Szmant and Gassman, 1990)...one "œhealthy"-looking Pocillopora was in early stage of necrosis (loss of architecture, basophilic tinge in mesoglea), from which it was concluded that the problem is on the animal side, with maybe thereafter nutrient-starvation of zooxanthellae (Glynn et. al., 1985). Gonads are reduced and reproduction is generally impaired...Bleached corals had half normal lipid levels (Glynn et. al., 1985). Phenoloxidase, a biomarker of immune capability, was found to have lower activity in bleached and semi-bleached M. annularis (Scith, 1992). Secondary parasites were observed in a few cases (fungus, bacteria). There is no transmission of bleaching following iso-allo-and xenografts...During bleaching there is no visible calcification." (Taken from Pecheux, 1992)

There is good reason to suspect that the low lipid reserves and lowered immunity features precede the bleaching event rather than result from it, as one might suspect. Widespread outbreaks of infectious diseases and parasitic problems among (not bleached) corals have been another cause of serious concern to reef scientists, also starting only in recent years. And, as mentioned earlier, slowed growth of (not bleached) corals has actually been occurring in some "œpristine" areas for decades. Therefore it is reasonable to suspect that some underlying factor has caused these changes and thereby weakened coral communities as a whole, and predisposed many corals now to "œbleaching" under temperature stress. Food-deprivation is certainly consistent with the pattern of presenting symptoms (slowed growth, low lipid reserves, lowered immunity and reproduction, ultimate death). "

Thanks for the good reading there.It was very interesting

I have concluded the same just from my own observations with starving corals.heavy feeding with good nutrient export seems to fix the problem some of the time
 
Great reading stuff !

The term "coral starving" is a general one IMO. If you take nutrient's level to 0 (PO4 & No3 ) but adds amino acids that should be the coral food at this time
Is that called starving ? Feeding fish 3 times a day (heavily feedings) should get some nutrients back to the corals i thought.
These are very interesting idea's - keep them coming :thumbsup:
 
I had the same problem even severe one while big colonies of acros died in few days all parameters were fine - analytic tests of all parameters . In fact it came in 3 waves - in the first one acros died than came a wave of Ciano
2nd wave all clams died and 3rd wave all montipura died / all that time there were kind of algae from all kinds and all colors - showing like a cycle. The calcareous algae was regressing and no new algae was growing
- the interesting thing was that next to the big tank I have a 10 ga. Nano reef that gets it water from the main tank by water changing. In that Nano - all corals are happy with a nice and pink layer of calcareous algae
It was very strange so I couldn't put any coral in the main tank because all died.

The live rock became very dark and looked like dead rocks.
After analyzing all record I do belive now that what happened is related to bacteria explosion that influenced the rock in the main tank and not in the Nano. Such explosion of bacteria from different kinds mainly bad ones can happen buy overdosing bacteria or bacteria food or using De Nitrator- Sulphur base without monitoring Sulphur level that rose in my tank
I took out all the rocks - washing them carefully and brushing them. You will never belive what came out of it......very frightening and I have about 12000g/h from different wave pumps and seaquance pump and close loop of Dart...... Meaning that these bacteria were on my rocks killing everything. I'm in a process to add some acros again and will be happy to update you if that was the problem
 
This are Some of the steps i took in the past week in order to try and stop this STN :

fragged the infected coral into 3 (its small so this is the max frags) and putted 2 in different places in the tank and the third piece at my friends tank.

Took some of the additives down (1-2-3-bak)

Took out some of the PFO i was using (Deltec).

Hope this will help solve this issue - since fragging the coral i havent seent the STN progress till now so maybe its good news.

Any other solution somebody tried and succeeded with stopping STN ?

:thumbsup:
 
I finished dropping my salinity and that seems to have slowed the STN to a point I'm not noticing any other corals. I got new bulbs on the way too so hopefully we're both on the right track.

I've also recently started feeding Rod's Food (Original and Herbivore). The fish seem to love it and my LPS corals really come out when it hits the water. In reading through the ingredients it would appear there is quite a bit in the Original recipe that would be beneficial for corals also without specifically buying their Coral Blend. I just turn my return pump off for about an hour and let it blow around.
 
I finished dropping my salinity and that seems to have slowed the STN to a point I'm not noticing any other corals. I got new bulbs on the way too so hopefully we're both on the right track.

I've also recently started feeding Rod's Food (Original and Herbivore). The fish seem to love it and my LPS corals really come out when it hits the water. In reading through the ingredients it would appear there is quite a bit in the Original recipe that would be beneficial for corals also without specifically buying their Coral Blend. I just turn my return pump off for about an hour and let it blow around.

what was you're salinity before \ after the change ?
any other change's you did ?
 
It was 1.030 last week when i checked it, brought it down to 1.025 again just doing a couple small fresh water changes.

Not really any other changes. Did kind of a big cleaning but thats not abnormal for me I'm kinda picky about the way things look and how clean they are.
 
It was 1.030 last week when i checked it, brought it down to 1.025 again just doing a couple small fresh water changes.

Not really any other changes. Did kind of a big cleaning but thats not abnormal for me I'm kinda picky about the way things look and how clean they are.

It was 1.030 as the usual salinity ? I am running at a salinity of 1.028 for more than 6 months now. could it be also one of the causes as you see it ?
 
I dono I've always ran mine at 1.025 or 1.026 at the highest. So when I tested it and it came up 1.030 it was odd to me so I lowered it. Must have thrown in 1 more 1/2 cup of salt when I was doing those 20 gallon water changes or something. I believe natural sea water is at 1.026 if I remember right so I try and mimic that.
 
Well . I leave the salinity issue out of the equation. A salinity swing can definitely harm SPS and turn STN (even stopped one) to a RTN.
I think i will continue running the system on 1.028 and monitor all other suggestions.
 
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