SPS dying from base up.

C

Cam

New member
Hi,

I'm having big problems with my system and I'm at a loss to figure out why.

LPS are the squamosa clam are doing great, fully expanded and colourful. SPS though are in a bit of a state, most are going white from the base up slowly over many days, no sign of brown jelly or tissue loss. There is a definite transition from white to coral tissue not a paling. All polyps are hidden even on the likes of a. millipora and hystrix etc. May be related but I am also getting quite bad cyno and the tank glass gets very green in just one day. Tank has been running about 2.5 months with all new rock, sand, water etc. until about 2 weeks ago the SPS were all doing fine and showing good growth.

At first I suspected my DKH was low but as you will see from my params below that is not the case. All other params are fine too and should pointto a healthy system.

I have yet to check my RO water but the DI resin was only changed about 2 weeks ago and I tested a few days after that and the TDS was 0. However the batteries has packed up in my meter so can't test again until I can pick some more up later today.

Only other thing I'm concerned about is a possible toxin issue. I had to pour some fibreglass resin down the weir to fully seal a troublesome tank connector before the system was set up fully (long story), and I thought that this would be completely inert when dry but I'm not sure if that is the case or not? It is nothing special just resin that you use for normal fibreglass work.

Equipment and params are:
Acrylic tank 2ft 11in x 2ft 6in x 2ft 6in (90 imperial gallons inc sump)
50kg live rock
Sand bed in tank aprox 2in deep aragonite sand
Remote DSB (kept in the dark) 7in deep aragonite sand
Plenty of flow around the tank via 'stream' type pumps, return from sump via OR3500
Skimmer TMC V2skim 1200
Ca reactor TMC V2react 1000
Lighting 400w 14k BLV
Ca 415
Dkh 8.5
Mg 1320
Temp 26.5 - 27 (stable)
Sg 1.026
Ph 8.1-8.35
Redox aprox 431
Nitrate 1-2
Phosphate 0 (high res merck test)

Livestock - 1 yellow tang, 1 small anthia, SPS (mainly aquacultured) LPS (cat, bubble, hammer), Squamosa clam, 1 gorgonian.

Interestingly I had a similar problem when I first set this system up about 9 months ago. After about 4 weeks I got really bad dinos that took over 7 months to clear and the SPS would not grow at all despite all params being good etc. This is why I suspect some sort of toxin. I stripped the system out and rebuilt with everything new but yet again after a short time I'm suffering with big problems again but this time no dinos (thankfully). Pretty much the only common factors in the two systems are the RO, the fibreglass resin in the weir and the lighting.

Any thoughts are most welcome.

Cam.
 
a lot of things sound in check. if your readings both for TDs is still 0 and so is your phosphate....then my guess too would be toxins. maybe the fiberglass did screw the system. i hope you come to the root of the problem. good luck bud, hope it all works out.
 
Your system is still fairly young and your fish load seems very low. I don't think the resin is causing this problem. Have all your parameters been stable? Can you think of any changes made before this all began? Has anything died or have you increased feedings? Have you disturbed your DSB or any low flow areas recently?
 
sounds like very high phospates to me. I've never heard of the test kit you use for phosphate, but I doubt it is doing a very good job. See if you can borrow a Hanna PO4 Meter and test it.

Green algae on the glass daily indicates nutrients. So does the cyano. I'd do some 25% water changes, run carbon, and look at getting the meter.

I was getting algae on the glass daily as well. I've started running GFO from Bulk Reef Supply and I don't start seeing dirty glass for at least two days, and then it is a tenth of what it used to be.

HTH,
 
I am having the same problem on a small colony of Chip's Acro my self and my Phosphates and Alk is in check. All other SPS are doing well just this one is RTN from the base up very slowly. What ever is going on I hope it can recover.
 
A few pictures.

This is when I first noticed it 2 weeks ago. no other SPS are doing this in the tank, just this Chips Acro.

8-19-09012.jpg


And today.
8-31-09005.jpg
 
Hi,

Thanks for your answers everyone.

Ronnie, The Merck test kit is a very high resolution kit produced in this country by D-D, it is probably about the best one available until you get into professional stuff. I also run a little ROwaphos continually to keep phosphate at 0.

I an also thinking high nutrient for the same reasons you all state. Although I was only feeding the fish probably the equivelent of 1/2 a cube of brime a day I have also been using some corals foods and live phyto. Maybe this has not been getting consumed as well as I thought and has started to collect and decompose. As I said the tank is slightly less than 2 months old so is probably not stable mature enough yet to cope with the unused food. This is probably why the LPS are doing well.

Currently using a little ozone and doing a couple of water changes and the die back has slowed and there seens to be a reduction in the frequency of the need to clean the tank.

A good clean up and some water changes will probably be a way forward. I'm also considering removing the intank sand bed and running bare bottom and just keeping the remote DSB. I find this shapr tank difficult to keep a good flow in without disturbing the sand all the time, so perhaps this will solve the problem of sandstorms and low flow or dead spots.

Timanator, my problem is very similar in apperance to your except the polyps on my corals do not come out at all at the moment.

Thanks

Cam.
 
Cyano can't live without phosphates. Lots of it can inhibit calcification, but would that cause RTN? I've never seen it happen that way. It sound like a problem with pH or Alk. What do you use to dose your tank for two part? How close are the LPS to the SPS? Do you feed anything to your corals?
 
same thing happening here, and i would think its a bacterial infection of some sort, there are to many variables to pin point just one since all are kind of stable, so if everything else is ok then an infection is the way to go, i started dipping some acros and fragging too, i reseeded the tank and i still have at least a frag of some acros that stn'd

sana
 
I've actually got a couple pieces from ORA that look very similar. Have any of the tips of the coral you are having problems with died as well? The Verde and Pearlberry for me both are doing this. I've got numerous other acros in the tank that are growing well, but these two are really a problem for me.

They go white, started at the base, then it started on the tips, and has slowed considerably since I started GFO. It may have even stopped. I wasn't seeing any polyp extension at all, but I did notice two or three polyps out on the Verde yesterday. First time I've seen that in quite a while.

My nutrients spiked about two or three months ago, with my nitrates shooting up to around 25. Unsure about phosphate. I never saw any cyano in the main display, but had it growing in my fuge (didn't bother me there, and I just siphoned it out). I was feeding heavily, probably four to five times a day, plus nori.

I've been doing some heavy W/C's, as well as starting GFO. I am actually having ALK issues right now, but I think it is because everything has started to grow again - a lot.

I've also added about 600gph to the display, to knock out a dead spot I had. I'm pretty sure that was helpful as well.

Sounds like you are on track. keep changing the water like you are and maybe look into a phosban reactor so you can run more Rowaphos (if you don't have one already).

Good luck!
 
Hi did you try to blow off your sps with a turkey baster hit them hard with the turkey baster and look for AEFW acro eating flatworms coming off the coral ,my cuz had the same thing happen to his sps it looks just like yours and come to find he has aefw ,just a thought .
 
Hi all,

Thanks for the replies. It looks like the issue I have been having is finally under control. Using a bit of ozone seems to have got the nutrients or whatever in check and the coral recession has almost stopped. Also the tank sides are not getting covered in algae so much as they were. I suspect it could have possibly had something to do with the addition of too much phytofeast live and home cultured nano that the system was not able to process quickly enough and that started to turn bad. I can't think what else it could have been, it looks like there are no signes of AEFW etc.

Many thanks for you help, I think I'm going to add a small fuge to the system too as this has always seemed to work for me in the past.

Cam.
 
I was thinking you might have an asterina starfish problem. I had the same thing happening to several of my acros. and I noticed at night many of these starfish on the coral. I'm not sure if they were causing it or they were on the coral because it was dead in that area, but check out what GARF says about them. you might want to see if you have these in your tank.
http://www.garf.org/STAR/starfish.html
 
Ouick update, After several water changes and the use of ozone and polyfilter there has been an improvement. SPS are still going white from the base up but that has almost stopped now. LPS still doing great abd most corals have lost their vibrance and have taken on a brownish apperance.

Cam.
 
Check out your flow & Alk what kit do you use. Most RTN from the base up is caused by ALK problems then low flow around the base of the coral. Take a Alk test morning & night to see if it is changing during the day? Try and increase the flow around the base's of the corals without using a direct shot!!!
Dave
 
I have a very similar situation going on in my tank and it is quite a frustrating problem.

I've been dealing with it for many months now, the same problem: The coral will start slowly receding from the base up and everything else in the tank looks well. In fact, even the coral that is receding looks good ,polyps are extended still with good color.
The frustrating thing is that the affected corals are not only receding from the base up, but also not growing at all.

I have almost 100% convinced myself that it is not a water quality issue at all. My parameters are always right on target. The rest of the system seems to be doing relatively well. I've got great polyp extension and great color in most of the other corals, the only problem is that some of the corals (mostly milli's, some acros) are receding and not growing!

I'm really starting to believe that there is some sort of predator actually eating tissue away. I have extensively searched for AEFW, by actually taking frags out of the tank and blowing them off with a baster, no flatworms have been found to date, plus there are no bite marks or eggs. In fact, there is a very clear delineation between completely normal, healthy coral tissue, and dead, receding exposed skeleton. There are actually some pieces that look as if something has eaten into the skeleton.

I've noticed a couple of asterina starfish before, but only a couple and I've removed them everytime I find one.
At night I have seen several very tiny snails around some corals, sometimes, but not consistently.
I don't have redbugs.
There are always copepods around, but seems like an unlikely culprit.
I am COMPLETELY STUMPED!

This tank has been very frustrating to me because none of my acros or milli's have been growing well at all and they have been randomly receding as described above. I never had this problem in my old tank which was very similar in design, except I used to have 14K Pheonix bulbs (now I use radiums).

Another frustrating, possibly related problem I've had with this tank is coraline algae die off. At random, patches of coraline will start dying by first turning neon pink, then quickly to white. When this happens there is a mucus like film being exuded from the surface and my skimmer typically goes nuts and over flows or doesn't skim well at all.

I don't know if these problems are related or not, but in my eyes it means my tank is not healthy. I never once had these problems in my old tank, in fact I used to have nothing but consistent, solid growth.

I really don't know what to do.
 
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